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Balrog's picture
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PROJECT: Looking for Mac ROMs

So we're looking for ROMs that haven't been dumped. This is to help improve our understanding of Mac hardware, as well as emulation.

A chart of known ROMs is available here: Chart at Google Docs. We are looking for any ROMs that we don't have a copy of (these are marked as yellow). Also, ROMs which don't exist in the list (continue reading to find out how to determine this) are helpful, too.

To dump the ROMs, please use the CopyROM utility within this zipped disk image. (Don't use the .144 file.) Before dumping the ROM, CopyROM will tell you the ROM checksum, which then can be compared to the chart.

Also, even if the ROMs are dumped, the letters on the actual ROM chips inside the computer (on the labels on these chips, if there are any) are useful as well. And even if you think they're dumped, please run CopyROM anyway to be sure.

Please also download TattleTech v2.58: (newer versions don't work too well, and crash older Macs), and generate a report including all the Hardware info, as well as Gestalts and Parameter RAM.
Use "Write Standard Rpts to Text File" for this to work.

Thanks!

EDIT: we're also looking for Mac OS ROM files that are not in the list. Thanks!
Also useful are Egret/CUDA ROM dumps for machines that have them. These are separate ROMs!
Use this utility to dump the Egret or CUDA ROM: http://minivmac.sourceforge.net/extras/egretrom.html

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MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

Where do you want them uploaded to?

Balrog's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 24

@Mike:

Wherever, an upload service (rapidshare, mediafire, etc) is fine.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

I have ROMs from my "Classic II", "PowerBook 180", "Centris 660AV" and "Quadra 650". The Q 650 ROM is very common, so you likely won't need mine. The "C 660AV" is unusable in any emulator AFAIK (a 2 MB ROM). I didn't take note of the letters/numbers on the chips, sorry.

Balrog's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 24

The only way you can be sure it's "very common" is if the checksum (which is the same as the first eight hexadecimal characters, viewable with a hex editor) matches the checksum in the list. There may have been multiple revisions of the Q650 ROM.

Letters/numbers on the chips, while useful, are not required.

The purpose is to improve emulation and figure out how the hardware works, so the fact that the ROM is unusable isn't an issue.

Protocol 7's picture
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Joined: 2010 Aug 7

I tried to dump the rom in my 5400 once but all I got was junk every time. Even with extensions off and other rom dumping tools.

And here's a couple of the unknown checksums for the Pippin roms:

1.2: 3E10E14C
1.3: 3E6B3EE4

Source: http://bit.ly/cFaNtu

Vitoarc's picture
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Joined: 2010 Aug 15

I've just acquired a PPC 7200 ROM but I don't know if it's been dumped or not nor what version it is. Perhaps it was found in the same place as the one listed in your chart.

I've tried copying the ROM from my PPC 7100 but neither CopyROM nor GetROM worked for me. I'd like to find a way to get it and I'd be glad to upload once I do.

Balrog's picture
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@Vitoarc, Protocol 7:
What are the error messages? Are the copy utilities provided sufficient RAM (in get info)?

Open a ROM file in a hex editor and look at the first eight hex characters to find its checksum. Then compare this to the list.

Protocol 7's picture
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I don't get any error messages. I just get 4MB of random junk in the file. Nothing remotely resembling a valid rom. I've disabled virtual memory and booted with extensions off but the outcome is always the same. The checksum reported by CopyROM is 6F5724C0 but this doesn't appear at the start of any of the ROM dump attempts I've made.

Balrog's picture
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@Protocol 7:

Are you using CopyROM from the image I linked? That's the only one that would work right.

Is the "junk" the same every time, or does it change from dump to dump? If it's the same, please upload it somewhere anyway, we'd have to look at it.

You could also hit Cmd-Power (programmer's switch interrupt) and type "DM 0" and read the front of the ROM to see what's going on. The first few characters would be the checksum. To exit the ROM monitor box, type "G ".

EDIT: Also, some dumps have junk at the front. If the dump is consistent (doesn't change each time), or at least most of it is consistent, please upload.

Protocol 7's picture
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Yep I'm using that one. When I run it, it takes maybe a minute or so to save out the ROM file. The dumps are different every time.

Cmd+Power and DM 0 gives me FFC10000 for the first few characters.

Balrog's picture
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@Protocol 7:

Can you take four dumps, archive them together, and upload? There may still be useful information.

Thanks!

Protocol 7's picture
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Joined: 2010 Aug 7

Here you go. I doubt you'll get anything useful out of them though. It's a mystery why I can't dump the ROM in this Performa.

http://sharebee.com/f4d0e6f8

Have you any idea how to interleave that split Pippin ROM?

Here's the pre-release KINKA ROM for it: http://sharebee.com/8423368a

It's the bottom screenshot on that page I linked earlier (checksum 2BF65931). More details can be found here: http://bit.ly/bTTzxn

Balrog's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 24

@Protocol 7:

I'll attempt to find out. Do you have any other Pippin stuff? If so, please upload!

Those "junk" files seem to be partial RAM dumps. Ugh. Sad

Protocol 7's picture
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Joined: 2010 Aug 7

As far as ROMs go, I just have that one and the split one. Never could figure out how to get it into one valid file.

I've a bunch of games (images, I haven't got a real Pippin) but they're mostly big, in Japanese, and can be found easily online. Oh, and crap.

Balrog's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 24

"crap" like what? Smile

TheComputerKid's picture
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Joined: 2011 Oct 18

**** DO NOT SAY ^&^& ****

Vitoarc's picture
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Joined: 2010 Aug 15

"crap" like what?

Can you take four dumps...

Just a guess... Laughing out loud

TheComputerKid's picture
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Joined: 2011 Oct 18

...morons...

256mbps's picture
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Joined: 2016 Feb 11

crap

Balrog's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 24

That's due to a bug in the ROM dumper.

Can anyone with a Mac dump their ROMs, and check them against the list? We need the ROMs that are marked yellow or red. They will be added to the archive.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

@balrog:

We need the ROMs that are marked yellow or red. They will be added to the archive.

Here's 2 of mine that don't seem to be in your have list:
PowerBook 180 and Centris 660AV <-- dead link removed. The C-660AV is a 2 MB ROM, so could be of interest.

Protocol 7's picture
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Joined: 2010 Aug 7

Crap like not worth playing Wink

Honestly there isn't a single good Pippin-exclusive title. There's a reason it flopped so badly. Maybe some of the Gundam games are good if you understand Japanese, but the rest... ugh. To be fair, a lot are edutainment so I'm not exactly the target audience.

For me, the only good thing to come out of the Pippin was the AppleJack controller. They rock.

MCP's picture
MCP
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Joined: 2010 Mar 12

Take a look here and see if there's anything of use--

http://www.mediafire.com/?dh1zacxowam7g

http://sites.google.com/site/oldmacarchive/roms

Mitrokhin's picture
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Joined: 2010 Sep 5

We may also have some stuff you can use on -~ PaNdOrA ~- a Wired 1.3.4 Server. Get the client here:
http://zankasoftware.com/dist/wiredclient-latest.zip and check the tracker for the address.

IIGS_User's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 8

PB190cs.ROM.sit (1.09 MB - link removed)
PowerBook 190cs Checksum = 4D27039C

Pismo.ROM.sit (2.95 MB - link removed)
PowerBook G3 Pismo Checksum = ECC44A65

Balrog's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 24

@IIgs_User:

Isn't the Pismo a "New World" Mac that uses the ROM from the "Mac OS ROM" file in the system folder?

Thanks, Mitrokhin!

IIGS_User's picture
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Isn't the Pismo a "New World" Mac that uses the ROM from the "Mac OS ROM" file in the system folder?

I don't know for sure, but probably you're right.

Fortuna Wave's picture
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Joined: 2009 May 23

Mitrokhin, I don't have the access of Pandora because Wired 1.3.4 requires the Mac OS X system, me running in Windows system and my computer is not suitable to run Mac OS X on PearPC or VMWare Workstation. Can you list of ROMs are available?

Balrog's picture
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@sheepmyshaver123:

Check out qwired.

Fortuna Wave's picture
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Joined: 2009 May 23

And what is the address of the Pandora?

Balrog's picture
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@Protocol 7:

Can you try the various utilities within http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2784115/%20ROM%20Tools.zip ? The ROM must be 4MB though, if it's 3MB then it's incomplete.

Protocol 7's picture
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According to AutoCopyROM my ROM is 3MB and it quits with an error when it tries to save it to disk. It also reports the checksum as 6F5724C0. ROMmie gave me this: http://bit.ly/cmFmoO

I tried two dumps with RomCopy. With and without extensions. Both are different and neither have the correct checksum. They're also 3MB each. So it looks like I just can't do it with this Mac.

Balrog's picture
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@IIGS_User:

Can you upload the Mac OS ROM file from the System Folder on the Pismo? Make sure you stuff it. This one seems unusual.

Thanks!

IIGS_User's picture
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@IIGS_User:

Can you upload the Mac OS ROM file from the System Folder on the Pismo? Make sure you stuff it.

Mac_OS_ROM.sit (2.2 MB - link removed)

IIGS_User's picture
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Yes, I'll give it a try! Smile

iig's picture
iig
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Joined: 2009 Jul 16

what would a beige g3 be considered? a G3 v1?

Northcott's picture
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@nmz502: If the checksum is not the same as the one already in the set (it looks like only version 3 that's missing at this point).

IIRC, any new world Mac uses the software "Mac OS ROM" file in it's system folder to emulate the toolbox found in the ROM of old world Macs; the ROM file is specific to the OS version being used (with a few updates especially for later unClassicked systems). Just a side note.

soudesune's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 19

Hi Balrog,

I have a IIfx that has been gathering dust for a while now. Once I find a nubus video card for it and if I can get it to boot with a zip-drive, I'll try and make a dump for you.

Balrog's picture
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@nmz502:
It could be v1, v2, or v3. Beige G3s with a v1 ROM have buggy IDE support and don't work well (or at all?) with OS X. We have a v3 ROM, it's just waiting to be installed in a G3 and dumped.

@Northcott:

The Mac OS ROM file can be unpacked into a "standard" ROM. There's code for this in SheepShaver. However, these ROMs also have a version number, and we need ones which we don't have.

max1zzz's picture
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Joined: 2010 Oct 3

i have a pm 8600 but it isn't listed in the list dose it have the same rom as the 8500 or something

Balrog's picture
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@max1zzz:

As far as we can tell, it may have a different ROM. Can you try dumping it with CopyROM?
Thanks!

macgeek417's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 9

You seem to only have 1 thing listed for the PowerExpress. I have several ROM files that I found on the 'net at one point:

ROM SIMM dump
OF 2.0a9 flash dumps
OF 2.3 flash dumps

Also, in case this makes any differance, IIRC the PEX's ROM SIMM (the 3MB ROM you have) is pretty much the same as the New World Mac's Mac OS ROM file.

I can upload the other 4 files you seem to be missing if wanted. (they need to be interleaved into 1 file - there are 2 flash chips, and 2 versions of each.)

Balrog's picture
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We have the .zip which was linked from 68kmla.org. The problem with this 3MB DIMM is that it doesn't verify checksum. We can tell that one chip out of the four on the DIMM didn't dump properly.

From what we can tell, the first 3MB was quite static and the last 1MB kept changing stuff, like drivers. That's why the last 1MB is not checksummed.

Also, one reason the PEX machines may be so unstable is because the ROM chips are very lousy. Probably burning the ROMs onto better quality chips would help.

Still, go ahead and upload.

BTW this isn't the latest ROM set. We have IIfx, and Mac II first version is on its way.
If you're wondering what we're using them for, it's to improve emulation and to help us understand how Mac OS works. Smile

macgeek417's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 9

Yeah, at one point I was trying to accumulate a complete 68k romset - I did't do as good of a job as you seem to be doing though =P

So that is partially corrupt? Maybe it was dumped at too high of a speed or something...

:V

EDIT: Looks like mine has the same checksum as your's. Should I still upload it? I am missing the interleaved flash chip ones though - only the untouched ones are in my collection.

macgeek417's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 9

Hm, looks like this is listed as missing...
http://www.box.net/macgeek417/1/40189408/415255506
(IIvx)

Balrog's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 24

@macgeek417:

can you PM me on IRC?

EDIT: Thanks for that ROM! We were looking for it!

EDIT 2: wrong. I ran a checksum and it's actually 4957EB49.

macgeek417's picture
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hm, IIRC I got that from a hex editor...

What is the info for IRC? I'll add it to Xchat.

trag's picture
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Joined: 2010 Dec 6

So did you ever get a good download from the PEX? I'm trying to build a PEX ROM DIMM and a good dump is the big issue facing me right now.

I wonder if you've seen this discussion over at 68kmla.net: http://68kmla.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12920&p=126853&hilit=check...
where the author finds the checksum embedded in the ROM dump, but not at the beginning and finds that newer ROMs only checksum the first 3 MB even though the ROM consists of 4 MB, if I'm reading it correctly?

Also, regarding your listing of the x500/x600 family: the following might be of some use to you.

I know of four ROM revisions which were used in the PowerSurge family of machines, which include all of the X500 and X600 machines and many of the clones from that era. Also, the Catalyst machines used the same ROM even though they had a different memory controller chip.

You've got the $77D.28F1 listed. I have only found it on early 7200s. You've got it listed as on x500s as well, so I assume it is present on some of those as well. If I remember I can get the chip numbers for that ROM. I think I have it in my (home) lab notebook.

Ah, found an archived email of mine from the ANS list. The $77D.28F1 ROM is on chips marked 341S0106 - 341S0109.

The vast majority of 7200, 7500, 8500, and 9500 have the $77D.28F2 ROM. These come on 341S0168 - 341S0171 chips as you have listed. The PCC PowerCurve, PowerCenter, PowerCenter Pro, PowerTower, PowerTower Pro, PowerWave, Umax J700, S900, and Daystar Genesis clones all used this ROM as well. In summary, all the PowerSurge and Catalyst based clones used this ROM. This ROM is also found on the PM7600.

The PM8600 and PM9600 are confusing because there were two major revisions with the same designations. Apple distinguished them by giving the later revision the name "Enhanced". So there was a PM8600 and a PM8600 Enhanced and a PM9600 and a PM9600 Enhanced.

The "Enhanced" versions were the "Kansas" logic board version that used the 604EV processor on the card with in-line cache. There was also a ROM change between the early and "Enhanced" versions.

The original PM8600 and PM9600 (and PM7300) have the $77d.34F2. This is found on the 341S0280 - 341S0283 as you have listed.

The PM8600 Enhanced and PM9600 Enhanced (AKA Kansas machines) have the $77D.34F5 ROM. This is found on chips labeled 341S0380 - 341S0383. I do not believe that you have this one listed.

The Beige G3 ROMs with Mask ROMs had only two chips. The Beige G3 ROMs with more than 2 chips were built with Flash or EEPROM chips and their markings are irrelevant.

My experience indicates that the $77D.45F2 (Beige G3, Rev. 3) is built on 341S0494 and 341S0495 marked chips. This is different from the table entry.

And the Rev. 2 Beige G3 ROM is $77D.45F1. I've never been able to find the chip markings for it, because the only Rev. 2 ROM I've seen was built from AMD Flash chips.

Finally, I'm not certain, but I believe that you are missing at least two ROMs from the x100 family. The PM9100/80 and PM9100/120 had different ROMs from the other members of the x100 family and different from each other. I'll have to look that up in my notebook to be sure.

Do you have the ability to reinterleave the ROM code? I have copies of the $77D.34F5 code and the $77D.45F1 code, but it is broken into four interleaved parts suitable from programming onto Flash chips.

Balrog's picture
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I'd like to discuss that 1MB "end part" of the PEX ROM. There are two possibilities with the main (3MB) ROM:
1. bad dump
2. Apple patched the ROM and disabled the checksum test.

I find (2.) unlikely because we know that only a single chip was dumped improperly. the three others are correct. And the chips are interleaved, not sequential.

Balrog's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 24

An easy way to determine which ROM you have is looking at the first few bytes in a hex editor. Doesn't verify the ROM though.