This page is a wiki. Please login or create an account to begin editing.


22 posts / 0 new
Last post
snes1423's picture
Offline
Joined: 2020 May 13
Need a 68k Mac to program on

Hello everyone, I am looking for a 68k Mac to program on preferably a laptop due to limited space in the house I live in I am planning on porting many os7 apps/games to 68k as well as many open source windows games that never came to Mac example commander keen or games on consoles legally of course to 68k example Mario/zelda one day I hope to see donkey kong for Mac 128k or super Mario bros 3 for Mac plus or maybe earthbound for 68030 Macs besides all that I would love to see possibly a port of word for windows 95 to 68030/40 machines among many other ideas I have up in my head Wink

Comments

cbone's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011 Sep 17

if I had one to give away Wink but maybe a shipping cost arrangement with someone who does may work. bear in mind that desktop electronics are (or should be) more rugged as far as age of components, laptop/desktop overheating issues. I was thinking maybe an old, low-end Mac LC or IIsi model, but they all would need adb mice and keyboards (unless there's usb or old windows kbd/mice to ADB adapters?) to operate. Those Macs can use VGA adapters, right? Then any VGA (a small flat-screen would be nice/cheap?) can be used!

snes1423's picture
Offline
Joined: 2020 May 13

exactly that is why I prefer laptops over desktops so much more easy to operate and use keyboards and such

cbone's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011 Sep 17

If I come across any sub-$100 powerbooks, I'll post them here:

Powerbook 5300c, it boots with a power adapter but comes without one. At least a large number of Powerbook power adapter models can be used to power this Mac.

soudesune's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Dec 19

Personally, I would get a Performa 475 or LCIII. Laptop plastics have not been good to hinges. 68K PowerBooks (actually *all* PowerBooks) require mains power, so they are not as portable as they once were.

The later pizzabox macs are easy to acquire, don't take up too much space and are often more powerful & durable than 68K PowerBooks.

Furthermore, the later 68K pizzaboxes are reasonably easy to upgrade (SCSI2SD, more VRAM, more RAM) and don't require delicate operations when opening the machines up. To be sure, one can get a SCSI2SD PowerBook Edition but it still has to be installed. Certainly the Performa 475 can display 1024x768 on an LCD monitor (I have a lovely Eizo 19" monitor).

The disadvantage is usability on trains and the like, as long as you mains power on the train.

Duality's picture
Offline
Joined: 2014 Mar 1

I second this, and I'll add that "real hardware" will never compile code as fast as a 68k emulator can.

The best reason to get 68k hardware is not to make writing code easier, but to make sure that your programs run on the actual, slow hardware. It's to one's benefit then to get a Mac Plus or an unloved, "slow" 68k Mac or PowerPC 601 for performance testing and debugging. Avoid the luxury Macs.

As far as actually compiling code goes, any Mac is fine for small programs. By the time you do worry about the compile times, no 68k Mac is going to solve that problem as well as an emulator, or any PowerPC Mac.

adespoton's picture
Offline
Joined: 2015 Feb 15

To add to this, MPW has been ported to macOS now, so if you learn the MPW environment, you can cross-compile 68k Mac binaries that in theory should run on 68k Macs. Also, Paul Pratt created Mini vMac in the first place as a platform for compiling and testing 68k code -- the idea being that you can target a Plus, and by so doing write software that should be compatible with any Mac capable of running System Software 4 through 7.5.5.

snes1423's picture
Offline
Joined: 2020 May 13

I would need one to be donated due to spending $599 on a surface RT brand new due to my hp pavilion g61 320us getting fryed

Bolkonskij's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Aug 3

I agree with soudesune. You'll spare yourself some headache! If you're after authentic 80s Mac development feeling, get a SE/30. Has the original form factor but boasts a 68030 CPU you'll be thankful for when compiling. (sometimes I'm baffled how these developers achieved what they achieved. IIRC john calhoun once said in an interview that he coded the early Glider versions entirely on his Mac Plus. Imagine! The machine compiles away for 20 minutes until you notice you're missing a ; on line 169 and have to start again. +1 for clean, structured code Laughing out loud

What language are you developing in?

snes1423's picture
Offline
Joined: 2020 May 13

well I know several languages everything from English to latin and back again (Mostly due to my late grandmother scolding me in 8 different languages)

snes1423's picture
Offline
Joined: 2020 May 13

again I don't have any money so any mac I would get would have to be a donation at least for the next year or so

snes1423's picture
Offline
Joined: 2020 May 13

here is a picture of dark castle running on my surface rt for your guys enjoyment Wink http://images.macintosh.garden/2020/10/30/fortheloveof-mac.png

cbone's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011 Sep 17

You know, another hardware/emulator option may be to get a Raspberry Pi.

As far as I'm aware, it should handle many if not most Mac emulators all at once! It should set you back a little, but with Black Friday around the corner, you never know if you might snatch one up for less than the price of a nice dinner somewhere (well, maybe not so much these days due to the current situation).

The beauty is their size is teeny-tiny so space won't be an issue. Granted, the downside is getting the rest of what you need to operate it.

Ps. that was a sweet screenshot of your game! Smile

snes1423's picture
Offline
Joined: 2020 May 13

ok so i tried it on all three of my raspberry pi’s and it refuses to work with a sdl error

Duality's picture
Offline
Joined: 2014 Mar 1

Maybe I'm missing something, but haven't you already shown that you have Mini vMac up and running on your tablet PC?

Why not use that setup for programming on 68k Mac OS?

Why do you need to jump through more hoops to get Mini vMac running on a Raspberry Pi? How does that help you with programming on the 68k Mac, in ways that your tablet PC does not?

snes1423's picture
Offline
Joined: 2020 May 13

oh cbone suggested it to me and the videos of it looked promising
Wink

cbone's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011 Sep 17

Duality pointed out a valid option: you do have a Mac on your tablet Laughing out loud

I am so used to running to Basilisk II for everything I missed what was right in front of us, so your programming platform is all set to go! I've never used Mini vMac before and I blame Basilisk II for that, lol!

Plus I've always preferred to have backup plans and options, so if you hit any issues, at least you know your Raspberry Pi is also available if you need it for your Classic Mac programming Smile

Another reason to configure your Raspberry Pi down the road is you can then use it to test your creations on other Macs OSes emulated on Basilisk II (under System 7 up to Mac OS 7.5 with an older 68k ROM and System 7.0 to Mac OS 8.1 on a newer 68k ROM), SheepShaver (the easiest of the three to set-up and no ROM needed and runs 7.5.2 thru 9.0.4) and possibly QEMU (probably the toughest of the three to set-up and runs Mac OS 9.0.4 to 9.2.2).

snes1423's picture
Offline
Joined: 2020 May 13

thanks cbone

snes1423's picture
Offline
Joined: 2020 May 13

hey cbone I am assuming you are the one selling this if so how much to include the charger

cbone's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011 Sep 17

no, if I had something good to offer maybe yes though.. but keep asking Smile

in the meantime, work with your emulated Mac to program as detailed in earlier posts in this thread. and you macbook, if it still runs, should also provide another place to program using emulation.

snes1423's picture
Offline
Joined: 2020 May 13

maybe if someone had old macbook air that would be nice hate windows myself but needed something more portable than a 2011 pro so i got surface would love a air though Wink

Temporary Joe's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Nov 14

I remember that a relative of mine was programming in Basilisk II (backporting a Cocoa program to 68k), though I'll have to ask him what tool he used.

[quote] I hope to see donkey kong for Mac 128k or super Mario bros 3 for Mac plus or maybe earthbound for 68030 Macs[/quote]
Most of the old, official Donkey Kong ports weren't source-based to my knowledge, and I'm sure there's probably an old clone of it on Mac that could be hacked with ResEdit to add in more official-looking art.

I guess it's possible to use some of the Nintendo source leaks & disassemblies to backport games to the 68k Mac, but SMB3 will be impossible due to a lack of smooth side-scrolling on the Mac, EarthBound has similar issues, and none of them will sound remotely similar due to the lack of a sound card on the classic Macs. (Converting them into sound effects that play at different pitches, which is how games like Lemmings and SimAnt did music, might be possible).

The fact is, while I think that porting them is possible on a theoretical level, with additional programming tricks done and compromises made, 1:1 to computer porting really wasn't possible until the mid-1990s (there's a reason why the computer game libraries and video game libraries were so radically different), and by not understanding that from a fundamental level suggests you're WAY over your head in this.