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fluent's picture
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I have a Mac! and I might need help. :)

hey guys!

so, thanks to a kind member of this forum, i have a dual 1ghz quicksilver g4 mac! it has both os 9.2.2 and os x 10.4 tiger.

I have an early starting question. i am not at my mac right now but i tried to play a black and white game from the old days and it said i should change the screen to black and white mode. there is no b&w mode on this screen and system, it's too new, so how would i go about playing games like this that ask to switch to b&w? can i use mini v mac on the mac itself? that's how i did it on my tablet. just wondering.

i'll also ask more questions i have in this thread, so it's a good place for them. thanks!

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IIGS_User's picture
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can i use mini v mac on the mac itself?

Yes, this is what is Mini vMac is made for. Runs fine on Mac OS X.
The original vMac runs also fine on Mac OS 9: MacGarden/vMac 0.1.9.X

fluent's picture
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thanks! so can u explain how i set it up on mac? and which one would i be better off running to play the older stuff - mini vmac or the original vmac? any advice here would be helpful, thanks again!

fluent's picture
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I also need recommendations on vintage newsletter creating apps. Someone gave me some solutions in another thread but I lost it. I'm looking to create a vintage style newsletter, anyone know what i could use for that?

IIGS_User's picture
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The original vMac is outdated, has been last updated for Mac OS 9/X compatibility (vMac 0.1.9c), while the c in the version number stands for Carbon.

Please run its derivate Mini vMac, which must be still in active development.
It requires a Mac Plus or similar ROM file in the same folder as the application, and you can boot up a disk image by dragging it onto the application window when the flashing question mark appears within the emulated Mac. After booting it up, drag another disk image onto it get it mounted as well.

As I can see the Mini vMac web site, the author still offers a PowerPC Mac OS X version.

I would like to see some front-end for it to manage different approaches.

Mini vMac hint:
Mute the sound volume of your computer before starting up Mini vMac, as it plays the booting sound when it opens.

Jatoba's picture
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Joined: 2018 Apr 16

There are versions of mini vMac (not the outdated vMac) that run under Mac OS 9, too. But more importantly, before going the virtual machine path, did you try changing your Mac to 256 Greys? That's effectively "Black & White", and might be enough for what you are trying to run. (Which game is it, by the way?)

You can switch to 256 Greys from the same interfaces that allow you to switch between 256 Colors, Thousands of Colors and Millions of Colors. A very convenient place is from the Control Strip, usually placed at the bottom-left side of your Desktop.

fluent's picture
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Hi Jatoba. There are a few games thus far that gave me problems. Mechanical Anarchy required black and white and when i tried 256 greys it didn't change. The game was glitched looking and u couldn't read the panels as they were blacked out.

the other games that had issues were Fantasy Quest (froze my mac entirely), faery tale adventure (asked for a word and when i typed the correct word nothing happened), Quest for glory 1 (froze) and Shadowkeep 2.2 (also froze.) I also have a few .dsk images that can't be mounted by toast or disk copy, one for temple of asphai and one for orbquest.

Jatoba's picture
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I can comment on the disk mounting issue. Before Apple used the HFS+ file system, they used HFS, and before HFS, they used MFS. Some of those ancient disk images are in MFS format, and support for it and some other features were (unnecessarily) removed sometime after System 7.5.5 after Steve Jobs returned to Apple (which is why I consider everything between and including Mac OS 7.6 and 9.2.1 to serve almost zero purpose).

Since you happen to have Tiger also installed, try MFSLives to get the programs out of those images. I hope to one day see MFS support added back to Mac OS 9.2.2, personally, but until then, using either this under OS X, or vMac or mini vMac under OS 9 to get the files out are the most straightforward way.

fluent's picture
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Thanks again Jatoba! I'll download that now.

Edit - I don't understand how to install it. What is Terminal and how do I access it?

Jatoba's picture
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Terminal is an app that comes with Mac OS X. Inside the folder "Applications", there is another folder called "Utilities". Inside "Utilities", you have "Terminal.app". It is a quintessential app in the Mac OS X world.

fluent's picture
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I followed the instructions for terminal but nothing really happened and i still can't open .dsk or .dmg files. Was I supposed to move the entire MSFLives folder to filesystems? A step by step for dummies would help here.

fluent's picture
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And if u could again recommend me OS 9 and before newsletter type programs that are vintage and easy to use, that would be great. Just need something to make a one page newsletter.

fluent's picture
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@Jatoba, should I install vmac or mini vmac on os x tiger? or 9.2.2? and i should install a black and white ROM of like, system 6 eh? there's more games i couldn't play, i'll have to list them when i get access back to that drive (a replacement ide to sata adapter is on its way)

fluent's picture
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can anyone advise here? i have a good handful of games i need an emulator for and since i now have access to os 9, jaguar, panther, tiger and leopard, i want to know what is the best route for emulation. i'd also like to dive into virtual PC or a solid ms-dos emulator that can play all those ancient dos games. any advice is welcomed, thanks.

fluent's picture
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can someone walk me through (for dummies) on how to use vmac or mini vmac on my g4? i need a rom file and all that i suppose. i'm gunning for a black and white machine that can play system 6 or so, old .dsk files. help?? please?

IIGS_User's picture
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MacGui.com/Macintosh 128K ROM
to be placed in the same folder as Mini vMac.

After starting Mini vMac, simply drag & drop the Mini vMac boot disk (Mac OS up to 7.x) onto the Mini vMac window. After booting Mini vMac up, you can add other volumes the same way.

fluent's picture
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thanks! i'll try this tomorrow.

quick question. where do i get the mini vmac boot disk? and which OS and ROM is the best for a color machine that has the option to do black and white? like a system 7.5 maybe? would that be able to comfortably run the games i've posted about?

IIGS_User's picture
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For example from Knubbelmac.de, there is
System 7 - da wurde es bunt for 7.0.1, 7.1 British English,
or System 6 - als alles noch so schön klein war, US English System 6.0.8

If the operating system is shipped in its particular disk images, when using emulation, just let mount all the required floppy disk images at once, and run the installation.

On real hardware, there is just *one* floppy drive available with the need of replacing all the floppy disks at request of the Installer application.

When using emulation, just let them mount all at once and run w/o the need of disk jockeying.

fluent's picture
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are there not links here on the garden i can use? im a bit a lost here. i need like system 7.5 i think, that worked well on my tablet iirc. i just need a step by step and links from the garden to use to make it easier. like what is the first step here?

IIGS_User's picture
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MacGarden/Macintosh ROM archive

Mini vMac usually needs a Mac Plus ROM, which is also available from there.

A working Mac OS 7.5.3 image can be found here:
Mac System 7.5.3 for Basilisk (apps and games are included)

fluent's picture
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would system 7 still play color games from the mid 90s here and there? as well as black and white 80s games?

IIGS_User's picture
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Unfortunately, some black & White applications and games are broken with Mac OS 7.5 upwards,
but some color games may work with an earlier Mac OS 7 version.

fluent's picture
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can someone be kind enough to tell me how to set up Mac OS 7.5.x on this g4 machine? Smile

IIGS_User's picture
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This one would let you install a fresh copy of Mac OS 7.5.3:
MacGarden/System 7.5.3
It comes in its original manner, as shipped by Apple Computer back in the day,
enveloped in 19 disk image files. While installing, it will ask for the next floppy image to be inserted.

IIGS_User's picture
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When starting Mini vMac with ROM file included, and you'll see the flashing question mark, you will know, the hardware is ready, just missing an operating system.

fluent's picture
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ok, where do i download the correct version of mini vmac? link?

also, i would like to run system 7 after all. i feel it will be more compatible with what i'm trying to run. can i get a link to that as well?

fluent's picture
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system 7 color with the option of black and white would be perfect i feel.

fluent's picture
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also, should i be on os x or os 9? i'd preferably like to use it with os 9 but i can use tiger if necessary. and i need a link for mini vmac since i can't really search it on firefox.

IIGS_User's picture
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The main site of Mini vMac can be found here:
https://www.gryphel.com/c/minivmac/

Download link for Mini vMac for several operating systems is available from
https://www.gryphel.com/c/minivmac/dnld_std.html

IIGS_User's picture
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Mac OS 7 downloads for example:
Winworld/Mac OS 7

MacGarden/Mac OS 7 Floppy Install Sets (aka System 7)
(either #1, #2, #4, #5, or #8, I think)

MacGarden/Mac OS 7.0 & 7.0.1

MacGarden/Mac OS 7.0 CD-ROM
Could be the simplest way to get the Mac OS installed, as it comes as *one* file only.

fluent's picture
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i've tried renaming the classic color.rom to vMac.ROM and mini vmac keeps telling me the rom is corrupted. i've tried others from the first download on the rom page and got the same results. what gives?

fluent's picture
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another error said the rom file was too short?

24bit's picture
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Every Mac emulator usually needs its matching ROM file.
What about using the Mac II ROM you are using on Android for MiniVMac II?

MiniVMac built for emulating the Mac Plus will of course need a Mac Plus ROM.
Look here please: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-rom-archive
Please note that MiniVMac looks for a hard coded name of the ROM, e.g. VMac.ROM or MacII.ROM.
Therefore you will need to edit the names of the matching ROM from the collection.

fluent's picture
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i have the mac rom collection. i downloaded mini vmac install from here - https://www.gryphel.com/c/minivmac/dnld_std.html , for powerpc 1996-200x

what's the matching rom for that one?

24bit's picture
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Mac Plus. No 18, 20,21,22 should work.
You will know that this is the monochrome (default) version of MiniVMac.

fluent's picture
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it now says please insert the disk u wish to install on.

edit - what is the link for disk images for the hard drive so i can access it on my mac?

fluent's picture
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what size disk should i even use for system 7?

edit - nevermind i figured it out. Smile

fluent's picture
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how do u create your own hard disk, though? like a folder that is also a drive.

edit - found the guide! now i just need to hope i can access those downloads on my 2002 classilla web browser mac. Smile

IIGS_User's picture
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how do u create your own hard disk, though?

Either with Disk Copy 6 (when using Mac OS 9) or the Hard Disk Utility application to be found in the Applications/Utilities folder on Mac OS X ("File" -> "New image").

Once created, a Disk image created for emulation needs to be initialized first, but from within the emulation. Afterwards, it could be mounted in the host os as well to get files copied.

fluent's picture
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i have to go through this process again because i'm not sure what system software i need - either 6 or 7. i'm trying to emulate some games from 1984-89, so i take it those would be best with system 6, right? and a few games are from the early 90s but still finicky and won't run on 9.2.2 so i guess those would be system 7 or would they still work with sys 6?

IIGS_User's picture
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Early 90s often requires Mac OS 7.

But as Mini vMac has no GUI and works with drag & drop mounting disk images,
why not to create multiple ones, one with Mac OS 6, another with Mac OS 7.

Me, personally, keep my games in separate disk images to be mounted as second drive.

fluent's picture
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does os 7 also cover 1985-89 too?

IIGS_User's picture
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Most titles '85 to '89 will work, but some titles maybe are broken.

MultiFinder is an extension on Mac OS 6, to be turned on or off.
This enables the Mac to run multiple applications at the same time.

For example, if a game or application is not MultiFinder compatible, it will not run on Mac OS 7, because the functionality of MultiFinder is built-in, and not to be turned off.

fluent's picture
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well, is system 6 for mini vmac the best system for these years? i really want to play the black and white classics that i'm finding but most of them are broken in 9.2.2, only a couple of them work. so i'm hoping to set up a system that works for those black and white games.

IIGS_User's picture
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well, is system 6 for mini vmac the best system for these years?

Yes, I think so.

IIGS_User's picture
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Recently I notized that the Gryphel project also offers System software downloads:

https://www.gryphel.com/c/sw/system/index.html

These offers comes with 6.x, 7.x and 7.5
("license: free, but don't redistribute")

As written above, when multiple Mac OS versions are required to run the games, you can simply create multiple disk images containing particular Mac OS versions.

Mini vMac will mount and start the one dragged onto its window, when you see the flashing question mark.

I've set up a number of disk images ready for Mini vMac, full with either adventure games, arcade games, HyperCard, and so on. Usually, they do not include an operating system, because I mount them often as a second drive.

fluent's picture
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i'm just a bit confused on how to set it all up still. if system 6 solves my problems that would be great, i haven't gotten around to trying it yet. i have many games from 85-89 that i'd LOVE to play, but so far on os 9 i've come up short on getting them to work. question - would jaguar's classic mode run these better? or should i just take the time (likely tomorrow) to set up a mini vmac with system 6?

IIGS_User's picture
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or should i just take the time (likely tomorrow) to set up a mini vmac with system 6?

Yes, this is recommended

but so far on os 9 i've come up short on getting them to work. question - would jaguar's classic mode run these better?

If a game doesn't work on Mac OS 9, it would not run on Classic Mode as well.
68020/68030/68040/PowerPC games works well in Classic Mode.

fluent's picture
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ok, setting it up now. what ROM do i need for system 6? i have the system itself, but need the ROM. for some reason the 1.4mb disks don't load when i hover them over mini vmac, i get an 'x' in the emulator flashing disk.

fluent's picture
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nevermind, i figured it out. i have system 6 on a disk image now with a few games that actually work! unfortunately, a few games i tried gave me critical errors that crashed the system. Sad not sure how i'll get those working, if ever. King Of Chicago, Orb Quest, etc. etc..

cbone's picture
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To get the biggest array of old games to play, you'd want to setup different Mac OSes best suited for the particular games that you want to play. I'd likely go for a trial and error approach myself. You could even have the different System folders on the same volume and 'bless' whichever one you'd want to fire up. There are a couple of programs that let you choose which System you want to run and can even reboot your Mac as soon as you make your selection Smile

For example, you could have three folders with 'System 6' 'System 7' and 'System 7.5.5' and three sets of folders with games named accordingly. What I don't recall is if there's any issue with the invisible desktop database file (the one that handles your icons and info comments) when you go between System 6 and 7, so that's something to ask those who play often in System 6 Wink