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starfiretbt's picture
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Joined: 2014 Mar 15
Does "Chips & Dips" work?

I tried downloading the game "Chips & Dips" from https://macintoshgarden.org/games/chips-dips but when I unstuff it and try to open it it says

"The document "Chips & Dips 1.1" could not be opened, because the application program that created it could not be found.
Could not find a translation extension with appropriate translators."

Am I missing something? I know it's not a really interesting game but I do remember playing it as a child and I want to relieve that.

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sfp1954's picture
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Joined: 2013 Dec 29

Don't double click or drag and drop.
That doesn't work if the resource fork is missing.
Open Stuffit Expander first.
Then use the File menu to select the file you want to expand.

WhosIt.There's picture
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Joined: 2014 Aug 23

I haven't looked into it fully, but neither of the two downloads on that page (version 1.1) seem to work properly. It is an application that tries to run, but I've tried it with SheepShaver, Basilisk II, and Mini vMac using OS 9 (which isn't in the compatibility specs), System 7.5, and System 6, and all give a different error when trying to run the application.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

The document "Chips & Dips 1.1" could not be opened, because the application program that created it could not be found. Could not find a translation extension with appropriate translators.

Try dragging the ".sit" file over onto a StuffIt Expander icon and releasing the mouse when StuffIt's icon darkens in color. This should launch StuffIt Expander and the ".sit" file will extract it's contents containing the game OK.

The v1.1 ".sit" file extracts OK for me using that drag-n-drop method. The game itself does not appear to be compatible with Mac OS 7.6.1 on an '040 Basilisk II (tho' I did not try to reduce the display colors to 256, which was likely a reason there). [Edit] That was the cause, The game loads but Basilisk II is just too fast for this game (uncontrollably fast).

The game loads and starts up normally for me on Mini vMac II, a 256 color '020 build - both Systems 7.1 and 6.0.8 were OK.

That said, this shareware author would not have received a $10 shareware fee from me for this game. It is too poorly written. The robot is too hard to control with a mouse and it gets stuck on ladders too often (or falls off and gets killed). The faster the Mac, the more uncontrollable it becomes.

WhosIt.There's picture
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Joined: 2014 Aug 23

Weird. I used StuffIt Expander, although I had to run it and then use the Open command. Could have been the colour depth which caused the errors I got trying to run the game though.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

Yes, it strictly requires 256 colours. But it doesn't inform you why it should need 256 to begin with, nor does it switch the display automatically for you. The best it can do is have some exception error dialog, pop-up then exit with no explanation of the cause. This is why I also think that it is poorly written software.

starfiretbt's picture
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Joined: 2014 Mar 15

So I tried dragging the file onto stuffit expander in basiliskII and I got the same problem, I tried opening stuffit expander first and selecting the file but I got the same problem, I tried this with both DL's and got the same problem, I tried with a 256 color monitor and got same problem, and I tried opening it in basiliskII and minivmac (the version with color) and got the same problem.
I did not try unstuffing it in minivmac because I don't have stuffit expander for mini vmac, do I need a version 3x-4x of stuffit expander because from what I have seen I think that's what works for system 6 (the system I am using in minivmac).

Duality's picture
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Joined: 2014 Mar 1

System 6 doesn't have drag-and-drop, and it's more picky about having the type info match the app that needs to open it than System 7.

You can make System 6 less picky about what apps can open what files with an extension like Connectix Hand-Off II. That still does come in a StuffIt archive, and you will need to add the type info and creator code in ResEdit in System 6 to open that... which goes for any file that isn't a Disk Copy 4.2 disk image or raw disk image that you drag and drop into Mini vMac. I don't quite recommend this route given you seem to be a bit new to dealing with issues bridging Mac OS with non-Mac OS file systems and files from the web.

The simplest answer for you is to use System 7.5 or laterish to drag-and-drop with StuffIt Expander, follow MTT's steps, and run this game.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

Thanks for that Connectix HandOff II tip, Duality. I now have it installed in SSW 6.x on Mini vMac II - It's one I hadn't heard of before. Anything to help make SSW 6 more user friendly is OK by me. Smile

starfiretbt's picture
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Joined: 2014 Mar 15

That's what I usually do when I need stuffit expander, I use the HFV explorer to move a file into basiliskII, use stuffit, then move the folder created onto minivmac using HFV explorer again. I am not too good with things like ResEdit. But using stuffit expander isn't working either because it says "The document "Chips & Dips 1.1" could not be opened, because the application program that created it could not be found.
Could not find a translation extension with appropriate translators."
It is also doing the same with a bunch of other little games I am trying to add to my collection such as
https://macintoshgarden.org/games/dropper
https://macintoshgarden.org/games/movod
these are more unimpressive games but still games I played a long time ago. So I imagine I am missing some kind of software needed to run these games. I have Stuffit expander 5.5, Disk Copy 6.3.3 I think, and Virtual CD,DVD-ROM utility.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

I have Stuffit expander 5.5

Do you also have DropStuff v5.5? Installing this give you the Expander Enhancer software (System Extensions). You don't need to run DropStuff if you have no need for it, but StuffIt Expander version 5.5 makes use of the extension and it brings a lot more functionality to StuffIt Expander.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

Also, as it looks like you are running Windows as the host OS:

In HFVExplorer, when you copy Mac archives such as ".sit" files over into an emulator's disk drive, (when HFVExplorer is about to do the file transfer) you should always choose the setting "Raw copy, data fork" and leave the checkbox "Check for AppleDouble", empty. You choose that "Raw copy" setting by clicking onto the drop-down menu where it says "Automatic, let the program decide".

Alternatively there is another method to use in HFVExplorer, which uses entirely different settings:

By first using the Command-line app, unar.exe to extract ".sit" archives on the host OS and then transfer the extracted files to a Basilisk II disk drive via HFVExplorer.

The unar.exe command to use:   unar -k hfv "your-mac-file.sit"

Quotes around the file's name is important. The file will extract and any Mac resource-fork data will have names preceded by a % symbol. You then launch HFVExplorer and open a Basilisk II drive. On your Windows HD in HFVExplorer, navigate to where you extracted the archive to.

For extracted files with accompanying % resource-fork data; If it's a folder of extracted items, drag the folder to the B2 disk in HFVExplorer, or if it's a single extracted file, drag it to the B2 disk. HFVExplorer will ask what method to use when copying over the items. Choose "Automatic, let the program decide" and click the checkbox below to select "Check for AppleDouble".

Next time you launch B2, you should find your copied over file[s] intact and ready to use.

starfiretbt's picture
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Joined: 2014 Mar 15

I do have dropstuff 5.5 along with stuffit 5.5, and yes I am running on windows. I tried HFVExplorer using "raw copy, data fork" as well as "raw copy, resource fork" while unchecking "check for appledouble" that unfortunately didn't work also.
I am not familiar with unar.exe but I did try using stuffitexpander for windows to extract on my host OS. Stuffit for windows was recommended for me to get for minivmac and I was able to open the file into a folder with a whole bunch of files but they all had the same problem.
I have been using HFVExplorer with the checkbox filled and "Automatic, let the program decide" for everything before this, is everything installed wrong?

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

I think it might be useful if you can post up some screenshots of (a) where you are moving the files to and (b) some error messages that you get when you attempt to extract these archives. This could help in diagnosing the problem.

You can upload screenshots to the Macintosh Garden Image Hosting site. Then either add the link in your posts to your screenshots, or have them show in-line in your posts.

starfiretbt's picture
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Joined: 2014 Mar 15

Lets see if this works, this is me trying the method of moving the file onto stuffit expander
http://images.macintosh.garden/2020/09/18/pic-1.png
This is me trying to open the file that is created from stuffit expander
http://images.macintosh.garden/2020/09/18/pic-2.png
The bottom left are the programs I have for extracting and the bottom right is the file that is created, it looks like a document file.
EDIT: It does the same for the other three games I am trying to add to my collection all though for some reason stuffit isn't doing anything for the game in question this time, probably because I keep trying different .sit files for it and non of them have been working, but the same message is what I usually get.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

Thanks for the screenshots. They are useful.

Where does your folder named "games I can't get working" reside? I ask because I don't see it anywhere in the "System 7.5.3" startup disk's list of items in that opened window.

I suspect tho' that this folder is not inside an emulated hard drive (or HFVExplorer is doing the wrong thing). I just tested the file "M_o_v_o_D.sit" in Basilisk II by extracting it with StuffIt Expander 5.5. It extracts OK for me to an executable program which can be double clicked and played.

I also suspect this because your extracted "M o v o D" game has a generic "blank" icon and the error message you are getting is typical of the error you would get if you have extracted this file on a drive that isn't an emulated HD. Such as the "shared" drive you might use for moving files into Basilisk II. Although I can't see a shared drive on your Basilisk II's desktop - and if using HFVExplorer to move files into the emulation is your only method of transferring files into Basilisk II, then it's also doing something wrong.

This is what I can see after extracting the file inside Basilisk II's emulated HD (choosing "View > by Icon").

In your screenshot you have the "games I can't get working" folder set under the "View" menu to "by Name". Which also gives a clue, as it is showing the extracted MovoD game as being a "document" under the "Kind" column, whereas it should be showing "application program" like in the pic below.

What I would like you to try next, is to create a new folder inside of your "System 7.5.3" startup disk's HD. You can give it any name you choose.

Copy just the ".sit" files (not the extracted MovoD game) from your original "games I can't get working" folder over into this new folder residing inside of your "System 7.5.3" startup disk. Then start over by dragging the .sit archives from this new folder onto StuffIt Expander's icon, and see if that helps.

[Edit] BTW, I couldn't play MovoD on Basilisk II (running Mac OS 7.6.1) it crashes with a "Error type 10" message, but moving it to Mini vMac II (256 colors variation build) it played OK there. It had no sound on Mini vMac, which is a bit of a disappointment. It may play on Basilisk II using an earlier Mac OS perhaps, but I haven't tried that yet. - [Edit 2] Just tried that in B2 running SSW 7.1. It loads and plays but it runs way too fast - so fast that the shooting tanks are just a blur on the screen. It's impossible to play this in B2.

starfiretbt's picture
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Joined: 2014 Mar 15

Sorry about the confusion, the file was in a folder within a folder, how about this?


I understand it probalbly will be too fast to play, I am hoping to extract the folder in BasiliskII and move it to Minivmac
EDIT: also I am doing what you suggested with HFVExplorer by setting the resource to "raw copy, data fork" and unchecking the appledouble box

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

Thanks. On your Basilisk II desktop, you have two mounted disk drive icons. One named "System 7.5.3" which is your startup volume, and the other named "Hard Drive A" - What is the "Hard Drive A" disk being used for? Is it the drive that will be used in Mini vMac for example?

Also, when after you have dragged "Chips_DIPS.sit" onto StuffIt Expander and it extracts it into a folder named "Chips & DIPS 1.1 ƒ" the view inside of its window is showing it as a "document" under the "Kind" column. Which is wrong, it is why you are getting that error message and is the problem. It should show "application program" in that column. It means that StuffIt is extracting this file into a folder without including this file's resource fork (which would contain the executable data).

It's very bizarre that StuffIt Expander is behaving this way. It's as tho' your startup disk is not actually in the emulated environment and is being mounted from a shared folder instead. And I don't even think that should be possible at all.

Here's something to try. First you need to start StuffIt Expander and open the "File" > "Preferences" menu.
In the Preferences menu click the "Cross Platform" icon in the left side panel, then click the "Never" radio button in the right side panel, under "Convert text files to Macintosh format" (you want StuffIt to make as little file editing as possible). Then scroll down the list of icons in the left side panel and click the "Destination" folder icon. Under Destination in the right side of the panel, click the "Ask" radio button and the "When the archive contains multiple items" radio button under "Create Surrounding Folder". Click the "OK" button to save these changes and Quit StuffIt Expander.

The next time you drag a ".sit" file onto the Expander's icon, instead of automatically expanding the archive you will be asked where you would like the archive to extract to. Try this with that "Chips_DIPS.sit" file. When you get asked where you want it to go. Use the navigation features of the dialog and choose some location inside of that additional "Hard Drive A" you have mounted. See if that makes any difference to what gets extracted.

starfiretbt's picture
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I'm sorry, that didn't work either. Hard Disk A is where I keep my games while the other is my system files. Is there a way to tell stuffit to change the file type when it expands?

This shows the whole picture
http://images.macintosh.garden/2020/09/25/Pic-1_1.png

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

Thanks for the screenshot. I really don't know why StuffIt Expander is extracting these files so badly here.

In the Basilisk II settings, the startup disk is named "Install.hfv.dsk" which is kind of an odd name. I would remove the disk from the Settings window, then rename the startup disk to some other name to only have either the suffix ".hfv" or ".dsk", but not both. Then reload it into the B2 Settings window. You may need to enable viewing full filenames in Windows to see the full name there.

But failing this to having any beneficial effect. I'm prepared to create a startup disk for you, with an OS of your choosing, test it and StuffIt Expander as working 100% before placing it up for downloading.

I see you run B2 in a window. What's the window size and which OS would you like? I can build any from 7.1 to 8.1 for B2

starfiretbt's picture
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Joined: 2014 Mar 15

I called it "Install.hfv.dsk" because that is what the setup guide did and I tried to follow it to the letter. I was told the guide was wrong about a “Universal Install for Any Macintosh” when I really needed an "Easy install."
If you think my setup is wrong I would be very grateful for a startup disk that can extract these games. For window size the GUI can manually set the window size right? I would like to be able to customize my screen as needed. If I wanted to use your disk for regular purposes all I have to do is move the system files unique to mine to yours right? I have a few things unique like the screensavers I used to have when I was a child.

MikeTomTom's picture
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OK give me a couple of days. When you get it, try it out, before adding any of your own stuff to see that is working OK for you. Adding your own things should not be a problem.

Any preference for the Mac OS version you would like? 7.5.5, 7.6.1, etc ?

starfiretbt's picture
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Joined: 2014 Mar 15

I'm not familiar with 7.6.1, the guide goes up to 7.5.5, if that will work that sounds like it would be fun. Thank you so much for your help.

cbone's picture
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7.6.1 was a step closer to Mac OS 8.1 and both of those Mac OS versions share a lot of stability characteristics. I've always liked 7.6 a little more than 7.5.5 for that reason, it seems more complete to me, but 7.5.5 is the best, most stable version of 7.5, so it's not a bad choice. I do believe a few programs do require 7.6.1 to run, but they're mostly not a deal-breaker.

To put it in a little more perspective, Apple released Mac OS 7.5.5 for free on their servers, but Mac OS 7.6.1 always stayed a paid upgrade up until they pulled it off their servers and shelved it altogether. I translate that as Apple seeing 7.6.1 as a more refined OS, think of it as a 7.5.6 version that was never publicly-released.

For a little more on that 7.6 there used to be a great information website, here's its archived copy: archive of system7today.com

And from an operational standpoint, the 7.6 desktop doesn't really look or run much differently from 7.5; their behavior is practically the same for an install, playing a game.. the real differences are mostly under the hood.

adespoton's picture
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The big difference is that 7.6.x is fully 32-bit clean, so older hardware (Mac Plus) won't run on it. Moving to pure 32-bit land meant they were able to remove a bunch of old junk and clean up the logic a lot. This of course went further with the move to 8.x, which required a 68040 CPU.

But the nice thing about the 7.6 series is that it didn't add anything new to the core OS; it just cleaned up the underlying code and architecture. All the new features were totally new codebase that could be disabled.

As a result, for hardware that can run it, 7.6.1 can be faster and more stable than 7.5.5 with lower base requirements.

8.1 was of course 7.6.1 + Copland + bug fixes, so it was slower, had more resource requirements, and a whole bunch of new under the hood features/hooks.

cbone's picture
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Right Shock I noticed the speed difference between 7.6.1 and 8.1 immediately on Basilisk II, so you just enlightened me on the inner-workings of the OS number bump! That speed's also why I like having both OSes on my Basilisk II volumes whenever possible.. 8.1 has some things I really like, but 7.6.1 rocks, especially with PopupFolder's help, lol!

..now if we could just have an A-Dock lite running on System 7 and up, lol! Laughing out loud

If I could have my way, I'd borrow 8.1's Finder button icon view and the spring-loaded folder Finder tabs and put them in 7.6's Finder (maybe as a system enhancement extension, similar to Aaron) and if that wasn't enough, I'd love to just have PopupFolder work on Mac OS 8.1, it's truly the bomb on System 7! Sadly, FinderPop only runs on PPC-only OSes, so OS 8.0 and 8.1 are left without the two best folder hirearchal menu system enhancements!

cbone's picture
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Whew! I was able to find the working link for the System 7 Today website Laughing out loud

MikeTomTom's picture
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OK, the Mac OS 7.6.1 zipped .hfv disk image "MacHD-761.zip" is ready for you to test out in Basilisk II. The download is 49MB, it expands from the zip file to 1.75GB, so there's plenty of room on the disk for adding your own classic Mac files.

Read the text file that's inside the zip for details about its setup and disk contents. I tested everything as working OK before packaging it up.

starfiretbt's picture
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Everything works beautiful, thank you so much.
My only question now is I remember some of the games I play from this site being in full screen. I'm not talking about the BasiliskII emulator but the actual games, for example "Super Munchers used to completely fill the screen but now it seems to be windowed. Is there a way to get an application to fill the complete Basilisk screen? I know Windows has a program called "IntegerScaler," is there anything like that for the old Macintosh or is there a setting I can configure?

MikeTomTom's picture
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Glad to hear it's working for you. I took a quick look at Super Munchers (quite a neat game as it turns out). Perhaps you had played it in Mini vMac or an old Mac Plus or similar? Macs with an small display like those found in the Plus/SE/Classic etc, would play this game seemingly full screen as it would take up the entire display area. But this game does appear to me to have a fixed window size, so will only play in a window on Mac's with larger displays.

I don't know of any program like IntegerScaler off hand. I imagine a custom variation build of Mini vMac - a Mac II version of Mini vMac with a 512x384 display, 256 colors, and pixel doubled would give you want you want here, but then just the free Mini vMac, Mac Plus emulator may be good enough if you don't mind the mono display.