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XboXC's picture
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Joined: 2015 Jan 2
Website design for old macs

Hello.
This is my first topic.
I have a question. Why this site is not designed for viewing on old macs? I have a old Quadra 650 (33MHz, 68040) and i can't load this site on Internet explorer 4.01 (security error). If I use iCab 2.99 or Netscape 4 then i can, but this take very long time for load and all text or graphics is not formatted (old browsers don't have a new css engines).

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IIGS_User's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 8

And such browsers/older computers often can't show PNG images.

XboXC's picture
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Joined: 2015 Jan 2

No. iCab and Nestcape can show PNG pictures. That isn't problem. Wink
Time for load all page is 1min 25s. It is too long for normal browsing.
iCab 2.99
Image and video hosting by TinyPic
Nestcape 4
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

WhosIt.There's picture
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Joined: 2014 Aug 23

They may be able to display PNG picture, but the problem is that PNG images, unless very small, are bigger files sizes and do take longer to download than JPEG. The only benefit to using silly PNG images is that there's supposedly no quality loss, but it's at the expense of speed. PNG images are a pain in the backside even on a 266MHz PowerMac G3 (via a dial-up connection).

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

Hello. My guess is that because the Macintosh Garden runs as a content management system (CMS) and it uses the Open Source Software, Drupal as the underlying engine to deliver all of its needs, e.g; user interaction, database management, file storage, etc., support for browsers on 68k Macintosh will be at best, rudimentary.

   It is also possible to use a browser that does not support CSS with Drupal, but of course the site will not look very similar to how it looks in a browser that does support CSS.
  - Drupal: "Browser Requirements"

It would be nice I agree, if there was an option for older browsers and hardware to access a "lite" version of the Macintosh Garden. But I feel that while it would be great to be able to use a Q650 and comfortably browse the Garden (I would love it) - the need to keep costs down for maintaining this free archival & forum service, a reliance on FOSS will dictate how it is presented to its user base.

XboXC's picture
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Joined: 2015 Jan 2

Ok. But it is a second problem - all of old browsers is cant load all css styles and all site on mac is not formatted. My quadra use a ethernet connection and i think the biggest problem is not the png files but all browsers has no css styles.

Bolkonskij's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 3

Can you deactivate JavaScript? It's such a drag for older browsers. They get hiccups with the newer code they don't understand. (no clue which version of ECMAScript was up-to-date when IE 4 came out ..)

edit: oh and yes, a lite version would be awesome. Not just a conditional comment stylesheet for older IE, but a real lite version of the garden on a subdomain. You'd need to fetch the data from drupal but minus all that template bloat (in older browser terms) etc. and display it on a speedy 50kb page Wink

SwedeBear's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 18

Oh, suddenly something in an article about HyperCard is 25; does HC support external stacks/files and common file protocols?

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

@SwedeBear: I think you'd meant to post this in another topic, but yes HC 2.x can pretty much do all of those things. There has even been a HC driven BBS server and a HC usenet newsreader at one time.

SwedeBear's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 18

@MTT: could a HC browser for this site be driven by the existing SW ie forums, member and sw records intact for HC to display as in the full version?

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

I see what you're getting at now. Perhaps I should rephrase "HC 2.x can pretty much do all of those things." to "HC 2.x can do some of those things, but I don't think it could be a web browser in a modern sense". It would be pretty neat if it could.

XboXC's picture
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Joined: 2015 Jan 2

The best option is create a site without css and use only html (or php).
When the browser load this page i found in status bar - that site load a google ? code but i don't no why. I think this is not great for old macs with old 68k

Bolkonskij's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 3

The Google code is likely to be the Analytics tracking. Yes, it's a slowdown for older browsers.

@admins
Would you be interested in offering such a "lite version" of the MacGarden?
I might (!) be able to help. But I would need to get in touch with you to talk about the details. Could you drop me a line please?

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

@Bolkonskij: Perhaps contacting Balrog directly would help speed up things in this direction. See this sticky post: If you're a PHP coder, we could use your help.