This page is a wiki. Please login or create an account to begin editing.


33 posts / 0 new
Last post
OSH's picture
OSH
Offline
Joined: 2010 May 19
Creating a disc image in mixed-mode format under Mac emulator

Hi!
One simple question: is it possible to create a disc image,which contains data track and audiotrack under Mac-emulator (for example using Toast)?

Comments

bertyboy's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Jun 14

Why? Why not use Toast in OS X ? Or any of the multitude of Windows CD burners that can burn mixed-mode audio discs ?

OSH's picture
OSH
Offline
Joined: 2010 May 19

I don't want burn real CD. I want to make image, which contains audio tracks and data track. And all this under mac-emulator. Why? Because I need this Smile Under Windows it can be done with Nero and ImageWriter. Is something lik this under MacOS?

Mulder's picture
Offline
Joined: 2012 Jan 29

You don't need to burn a CD; all you need to do is use Toast and the File->Save as Disc Image command.

OSH's picture
OSH
Offline
Joined: 2010 May 19

Yes, but this option saves only data track, I can't create mixed-mode disc image with using this option...

Mulder's picture
Offline
Joined: 2012 Jan 29

If you rely on the default behavior of Toast, that's true. So the solution is to ignore the default behavior.

1. Let Toast add the Data track to the image in it's window.
2. Click on the "+" sign at the bottom of the Toast window and add the Audio track. If there are multiple files in the Data track, click the disclosure triangle in Toast to display them all, and then move the Audio track into the list of Data tracks so it's all one session.
3. Choose 'Save as Disc Image' from the File menu in Toast.
4. When that's done, confirm that it works by mounting the image and testing to be sure it works as you want it to.

bertyboy's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Jun 14

Am I missing something ? although I've not tried it yet, it sounds like I'll end up with a Toast image of a Mac HFS disk containing the original data with added mp3's or AIFF's, or whatever format audio it is.

Rather than a Toast image of an Audio disc with the Mac HFS disk image in the first audio track, which I think is what we want.

Does it require a minimum version of Toast ?

My only other suggestion might be to actually go and burn the physical CD just like we tried to document a few times in Toast 5 and Toast 7, and then try to image that physical CD. Experiment.

You may have more luck on the Windows side, particularly if you can make BIN/CUE images of the physical CD, Toast can then mount these (from memory) - test this, it costs you nothing to BIN/CUE image a real CD.

OSH's picture
OSH
Offline
Joined: 2010 May 19

Toast can't detect my CD-Writer under Sheepshaver.

MikeTomTom's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Dec 7

@OSH: What I can't work out so far is, if you are wanting to create a mixed HFS + Audio CD image from scratch, that is, from contents of your own data and audio? Or if you are wanting to duplicate some already existing CD with mixed data/audio to an image file on SheepShaver?

bertyboy's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Jun 14

How simple do the instructions need to be ?

1. Burn the mixed mode HFS and audio cd, either in Toast or in Nero, etc on Windows.
2. Image it as BIN/CUE on Windows.
3. Put the BIN/CUE onto the Mac sheepshaver disk
4. Run Toast under emulation and mount the bin/cue disk image
5. what has Toast not being able to see a CD-burner, perhaps in windows, got to do with it ?

There may be other, simpler alternatives, perhaps importing the audio into iTunes and playing it from there, but if you want to try it "for real" start by burning a physical CD that you want to "emulate".

OSH's picture
OSH
Offline
Joined: 2010 May 19

MikeTomTom: I have game image (.toast) and separate audio tracks as MP3. I've converted this MP3 to AIFF and I want to make an image with Toast under Sheepshaver. I haven't a physical game CD.
bertyboy: is it really so simple? how I can extract full datas from .toast image under XP to burn an HFS CD, if mac-files have resource fork and data fork, and I don't know, will this resource fork lost during this extraction or not?

MikeTomTom's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Dec 7

@OSH: These days I usually rename ".toast" to ".iso" and do all my classic Mac burning on Windows XP using ImgBurn, a free burning tool. It doesn't care if the data is in an HFS image it just burns it if the image is a valid CD/DVD image.

But I have never cobbled together a .toast partition with audio before, so I can't suggest further.

Just letting you know I find it safe to rename .toast to .iso and burn that on Windows - I think I may have had one failure so far. Also, making a .iso image on Windows of an HFS mac CD using ImgBurn is also safe. No failures there. Hybrid CDs also OK.

bertyboy's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Jun 14

We're getting somewhere, just one point - which won't make any real difference, but may help everyone understand what you're trying to achieve - you're not going to burn an HFS CD, you're going to burn a mixed-mode Audio CD, ie. a music CD. The mixed-mode indicates that the first audio track will be the Mac HFS data. So don't be too concerned about the HFS portion on Windows XP, the disc burning software will read it as a .iso and write it as a stream of data, audio data.

So the first hurdle is really going to be burning a mixed-mode disc in the Windows disc-burning software of your choice. For that you'll need to read the manual or help that comes with the software you choose. It will be in there, mixed-mode, Data and Audio is very old hat now. No-one creates CD's like this any more, since MP3 came along and computers were powerful enough to decode and play MP3 in real-time , while still leaving enough CPU grunt for other apps or the game.
Ideally you also want the Windows XP compatible CD burning software to be able to create BIN/CUE images. Again, this is basic stuff that all should be able to do.

So you burn the mixed-mode disc in Windows, image it into a BIN/CUE format -(you get a .bin file containing all the data on the disc, and a .cue file that describes which data starts where and ends where.

Then get those two files back to the Mac Sheepshaver disk, lock them in the Mac OS and mount them with Toast. In Toast, you may have to use the "Mount Disc Image..." menu option rather than any sort of drag and drop and main window buttons.

And that's the best we can hope for.

Another option with a physical CD that you have now is to try playing with the real CD. Insert the CD, start SheepShaver. Don't know Windows SheepShaver, but it may have an option to allow it to see any real CD's inserted. Fingers crossed.

OSH's picture
OSH
Offline
Joined: 2010 May 19

First - Sheepshaver can play a physical Audio disc without problems - I've tested it. And second...

I've made bin/cue...but Toast can't mount this disk, because is in unidentified filesystem...I know I must have "Foreign File Access", "ISO9660 File Access" and"High Sierra File Access" extensions...but for God's Sake, where they are?? When I want perform a custom install of MacOS, I can't find which component should I install to have these extensions!!!
Any help are really appreciated...really...

MikeTomTom's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Dec 7

Foreign File Access, High Sierra File Access, ISO 9660 File Access are Extensions. They usually get installed (by default I'd thought) by the OS when you install it. (From Mac OS 7.5 onwards) and are always located loose in the Extensions Folder inside of the System Folder.

If you can't see them by doing a "Custom Install" of the OS, try searching the main install Tome file, using TomeViewer. You can use TomeViewer to extract these files too. Once extracted, drag their icons onto the closed icon of the System Folder in SheepShaver, release the mouse and you should get a dialog telling you where it wants to place these extensions. Click OK and reboot to have them load into the system.

bertyboy's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Jun 14

Darn, not good news that Toast thinks its an unidentified file system, it should just think it's an audio disc and then find track 1 is a Mac HFS partition.

What's the contents of the small .cue file like ? it should detail what is in the .bin disk image, it's plain text - a description and segment numbers.

And can the mac OS in Sheepshaver see and mount the disc when the physical disc is inserted ? And if it can, what does Toast make of it ? if Toast can see it.

I seem to remember a Joilet Access extension for accessing Windows volumes after it moved on from DOS filenames. Info here: http://www.tempel.org/joliet/ But this should be an issue with your CD, it's a mixed-mode Mac HFS and Audio disc.

Big question, which game is it ? Guessing Age of Empires. Some of us could try this out too.

OSH's picture
OSH
Offline
Joined: 2010 May 19

Chaos Overlords bertyboy...and Civilization II Gold, and all games, which have audiotracks on CD, and creators of the images have cut it and converted it to MP3 "because image is much smaller". Smaller but substandard!
I will report any effects, but when I achieve it Smile

bertyboy's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Jun 14

"Smaller but substandard", don't know who can tell the difference on computer speakers.

Which software did you use the burn the mixed-mode CD on Windows ? The free version suggested earlier ? And again, does the Mac recognise the physical CD ?
I'll have a go at burning a similar CD with the same software later.

IIGS_User's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Apr 8

I've created some of them "smaller than substandard" Audio CD partition, but simply burn it as Audio CD partition and you're ready.

OSH's picture
OSH
Offline
Joined: 2010 May 19

Well. Next big question - is it possible to make physical CD writer on SATA/IDE BUS visible for Basilisk/Sheepshaver and Toast? For burning CD of course.

24bit's picture
Offline
Joined: 2010 Nov 19

Many years ago, Chris Bauer wrote "Thanks to ... Apple Computer Inc., who made writing a Macintosh emulator a child's play".
If somebody would care to write additional code for BasiliskII or SheepShaver many people could benefit.
Alas, there seems to be nobody willing or able to do that, things changed a lot since 2004. Smile
Thanks to folks at Emaculation, we were lucky to see some fixes and adjustments for newer OS done by a bunch of volunteers.

Among other emulators, Lauri Pesonen´s Windows NT port of BasiliskII was able to address hardware devices in 32 bit mode by means of suitable Windows drivers, SCSI or IDE.
A Mac HDD and a MO have been working for me some time ago.
I might dig out my Yamaha burner to give it a shot with toast, but that would be SCSI too, of course.
As BII supports Apple´s old SCSI manager, this is as close as one can get, I presume.

OSH's picture
OSH
Offline
Joined: 2010 May 19

I have this port and I have problem with it. I get "error in loading ASPI library"m, when I try to set-up SCSI. I've copied wnaspi32.dll to system32 directory - but this not help...

bertyboy's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Jun 14

Am I missing something ? I had thought the very reason we choose, and recommend, that CD disc images are uploaded as .toast is so that they can be burned by Mac, Linux or Windows.

If you have a CD disc image from this site that isn't in such a friendly format, let us know and we'll try to address.

OK, I know of a few BIN/CUEs, and for Mac Restore discs, especially those booting OSX, they may be .cdr. Are there any others that mean you must burn under emulation ? I can't even remember if my Mac Pro burners work under Windows XP emulation, not that I need them to.

OSH's picture
OSH
Offline
Joined: 2010 May 19

Bertyboy...I know, I can burn .toast image in Windows, but I want to burn mixed-mode CD under MacOS (emulated, not real!) and not under Windows.

IIGS_User's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Apr 8

First, burn the data partition, do not finish the CD-ROM.
Second, add the Audio files, burn them as second session + finish the CD-ROM.

It's just like burning mixed-mode CDs under every operating system.

OSH's picture
OSH
Offline
Joined: 2010 May 19

But I have asked already - what with resource forks and data forks? Windows can't display them properly and under Sheepshaver/Basilisk my CD-writer isn't recognized by Toast - I've got a message "no cd recorder found, check writer and cables".

IIGS_User's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Apr 8

Sorry about my comment, I've no idea how to continue...

bertyboy's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Jun 14

If Toast can't see you CD-RW drive - which you did tell us earlier -then it's just not going to happen.

SwedeBear's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Apr 18

Here´s an idea which I can´t verify at the moment copying and Stuffing disks through SS, so take it for what it might be. Here goes:

- it ought to be possible to session burn data file and sound/files under Windows. It *ought* to be possible to burn the first session with the source being an image of an volume, correct me if I´m wrong, and then then add the AIFFs in another session closing the disk, thus compiling a
disk formatted as CD-Extra/Mixed-Mode, yet again correct if I´m wrong?

– it ought to be possible to create a temporary volume in Toast in the size of an empty CD-ROM, write the the data part from an image as a session/partition. Then write the sound/music part, either as individual AIFF files or an image of an music CD, thus creating a volume formatted as CD-Extra/Mixed-Mode, correct me if I´m wrong?

OSH's picture
OSH
Offline
Joined: 2010 May 19

Well, SwedeBear it is worth to trying what you say. I will report results!

No. It isn't possible to burn image with methods you said...

bertyboy's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Jun 14

While I understand that you want burn a CD in the Mac under emulation, using the free ImgBurn in Windows and the simple instructions here http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=9142 is 100x easier.

MikeTomTom's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Dec 7

Thanks for digging that tip up, bertyboy. I may try that one out for myself.

OSH's picture
OSH
Offline
Joined: 2010 May 19

Hm...I've did it!
I can burn mixed-mode CD under BasiliskII 1.42 with enabling SCSI-emulation under Toast Deluxe 4.1.2. After Burning Game starts, music plays...success! No, only partially...Now I want imaging this disk under MacOS. Of course, as mixed-mode. Imaging under Windows is useless - under MacOS (up to 9.0.4, not OSX!!!) cue/bin is not recognized, and I don't know, why. I've tried to make AudioCD -image and mount it under MacOS with Toast - without success, I've got a message "Image could not be mounted, because it contains unknown file system. Most likely the files "Foreign file Access" and /or "ISO9660 File Access" are not installed". This isn't right, because these files are installed. Mounting Audio CD under Sheepshaver, as image under Alcohol 52% doesn't help - under MacOS CD is recognized, but game is without CD music. Isn't really any way to create mixed-mode CD and mount it under MacOS tio play games with audiotracks? really I have to physically burn such CD and then mount it as physical CD under SheepShaver/Basilisk?