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HubertPluskota's picture
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Joined: 2018 Sep 30

I am interested in your store demos that you have. I have some Apple computers and I've always lacked this piece of software for them!

HubertPluskota's picture
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Joined: 2018 Sep 30

If you are interested, I can upload 2 of my demos that I have. Excuse me for my English, but I am from Poland

BryMD's picture
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Joined: 2018 Jul 2

Hi Hubert. I've sent you an e-mail Smile

toples50's picture
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Joined: 2010 Feb 8

BryMD I'm interested for demos you have.I have enough Mac models so I want something for demonstration.

BryMD's picture
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Joined: 2018 Jul 2

Hi toples Smile

Will continue my work on 'Seagull AutoPlay' as soon as time (and my wife Tongue ) allows. I'm 90% there for a 0.9-release, so hopefully sometime during the spring. Will publish the full QuickTime Apple Attract Loops collection as a separate download (330 MB) then. And if desired, I'll publish my Apple Product Introductions, Commercials, and QTVR collections as well (totalling 990 MB including the Attract Loops).

These are getting ridiculously hard to come by in QuickTime format on modern day internet, so seems you either have them or you don't these days...

Edit: Regarding the Apple Commercials specifically, I haven't kept all ads under the sun - only the ones I'd loosely characterize as Mac-porn Tongue

Europa's picture
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Joined: 2018 Nov 19

Thank you for that post, you have reignited my fire to code my wardialer for the Classic Mac OS! Laughing out loud

My only question is that the only language I know like the back of my hand is BASIC and I'm learning C++, so I'm basically a clean slate for what language to use. Would C++ work well as a language for programming for the Classic Mac OS or would another language be better? If the answer is the latter, should I learn C because it is close to C++, which I already sort of know, or would a different language suit my needs?

I need a language that is versatile and allows for easy access to hardware.

Thanks! Smile

BryMD's picture
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Joined: 2018 Jul 2

Happy to be of service, RogerWilco Wink

If you don't know any adequate language on beforehand, you will of course have to learn a new one Tongue

However, working primarily with scripts and resource forks, I promise you that you can make miracles with dependencies (i.e. extensions/apps others have programmed that you can tap into).

What I'm trying to say is that, if you have personal gain/pleasure in learning a new language - go right ahead. But if learning this new language might consume the motivation otherwhise reserved for getting your app done and published - why not see if another developer already has made the dependencies for BASIC to do the job (not that I know the strengths or limitations of BASIC).

Best of luck with your app, man Laughing out loud

Duality's picture
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Joined: 2014 Mar 1

+1 to BryMD's feedback that Scripting is Good, and trying to hit the lowest level interfaces of the Macintosh Toolbox through Pascal and C, as the original Macintosh team did, will probably make it harder on yourself.

If you want inspiration, there's an Apple employee building a fully ray traced Myst clone out of HyperCard in his spare time:

https://twitter.com/dijkstracula/status/1089908530239266816

Now I'll step away from this thread. It's in good hands. Smile

Europa's picture
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Joined: 2018 Nov 19

Thanks to both of you! I completely forgot about HyperCard, but scripting may just be the ticket. I'm not trying to do anything new, simply trying to automate a process. From what I understand about Hypercard, anything made with it is automatically graphical and I can use drivers and interfaces already present in the system. Now that I think about it, it definitely sounds like HyperCard is worth checking out. Smile

Idéfix's picture
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Joined: 2018 Oct 14

There is a book about HyperCard already uploaded here on the Garden: "HyperCard Power: Techniques and Scripts".

http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/hypercard-power-techniques-and-scripts

Look also at my comment at the bottom of the page for links to four other books on HyperCard programming.

Europa's picture
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Joined: 2018 Nov 19

Thanks! I'll have to take a look. Laughing out loud

WhosIt.There's picture
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Joined: 2014 Aug 23

not that I know the strengths or limitations of BASIC

That would depend on the variety of BASIC you're using - there are quite a few: REALBasic, Chipmunk BASIC, Microsoft BASIC, etc.

Gary's picture
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Joined: 2011 Jul 21

I've coded with C and C++ (as well as several other languages). For simple apps and drivers, C is my recommendation. It's good at bit manipulation and can poke memory locations directly. It creates small binaries and fast execution times.

For complex stuff (like Photoshop) C++ will save you lots of grief in simplifying the complexity of the project. It's binaries are large and execution is generally a lot more sluggish than its C equivalent. If you were to code up a test app in both C and C++ that did the same thing the C version will run circles around the C++ one.

Gary

(Paid Mac Programmer for 20 years)

Europa's picture
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Joined: 2018 Nov 19

Ok, thank you! Laughing out loud

Do you have any recommended reading for how to address hardware such as a modem using C? Smile

Gary's picture
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Joined: 2011 Jul 21

To my knowledge no one wrote a book on how to write a driver.

There are some tech notes and code samples that came on Apple's Developer series CDs. Some of those CDs are available on MG.

Gary

Europa's picture
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Joined: 2018 Nov 19

Ok, thanks! I'll take a look. Smile

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

Hmm... I think I've got a WarDialer HyperCard stack sitting somewhere. It included a plugin resource that let you interact with the modem from HyperText.

Also, I believe the source for ZTerm is floating around, and I *think* it was written in C.

Back in the day, I just used AppleScript to script the data in/out of ZTerm and let it handle connecting to the modem.

Europa's picture
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Joined: 2018 Nov 19

Ok, so I set to work trying to write my wardialer in HyperCard. I have designed it to only work with North American phone numbers for simplicity. I have run into an issue where if I dial through the modem using the HyperTalk dial command it will only dial six numbers, which is a problem because I want to include *67 at the beginning of the number (and no number is only six digits in America). Does anyone know why this is the case?

EDIT: So I got that figured out. Next is a curious problem where I cannot get my Power Mac G4 to pipe audio from the modem even when I use the Hayes command telling it to do so. Also, upon testing the application, my cell phone will only ring if I have an actual telephone on the line as well. Does anyone know why this is the case?

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

Back in the day I had the same issue with audio redirect and eventually worked around it by wiring the modem speaker to a line in jack. Hacky, but it worked. Which modem are you using? Different modems had different extended codes for managing the modem-specific features like audio.

As for your ringing, you need to keep the modem off-hook when it finishes dialing. I usually skipped the dial command and just did hayes line commands to accomplish the dialing. I then used a log to itemize whether I got a fax machine, modem (at whatever baud rate) voicemail or a live pickup on the other end. Should still be doable, as you're using essentially the same setup I used.

Europa's picture
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Joined: 2018 Nov 19

I'm using the built-in modem on the Power Mac G4. It would be preferable if I had multiple modems to test with, but that's my only Macintosh with a modem at this time. I should check my Mini G4 and see if it has a modem, but it would probably run into the same issues as the Power Mac's modem does. I can tell the dial command to dial through the speaker. Holding a telephone handset up to the speaker of the Power Mac will dial correctly if all else is quiet.

A log is a good idea. It will be a good excuse to use AppleWorks' database functionality. How would I send commands to the modem in HyperCard?

Thanks for your help. Smile

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

The Mini G4 has a modem; it’s how I transfer files between pre-Ethernet Macs and the rest of the network.

Europa's picture
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Joined: 2018 Nov 19

Ok, cool! Thanks. Smile

What's the method you would suggest for sending commands to the modem? Smile

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

Heh... I'm drawing a blank. modem xcmd maybe? I know how to do it with ZTerm (it handles it automatically) but I can't recall how to write/read the modem port directly in HyperTalk.

This should help: https://archive.org/details/hypercard_serialporttoolkit -- it may be somewhere on here too.

[edit] As far as sending Hayes commands, you send +++ (the break command) and then you can send any AT command directly to the modem. This assumes you've got a pipe open to the serial port / modem of course.

GeoPort modems functioned a bit differently than hardware modems, but I think the G4s all used a real hardware modem, and so supported at least the basic Hayes AT set (and possibly the extended set).

BryMD's picture
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Joined: 2018 Jul 2

Wonderful to see all the problem-solving banter between you guys! *goosebumps* Really looking forwards to seeing the final result!

Not to bring this constructive thread of track, but I've always assumed that a war-dialer assumes some form of malicious intent, or, in best case, a lack of consent. Anyone care to educate me? Smile

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

When done properly, it's essentially an exploratory tool, much like the "ping" tool on a computer. You give it a range of numbers, and it calls them and sees what happens. Results can be "not in service" "not available" "cannot connect" "busy" "phone rings" "person answers" "machine answers" "fax answers" "modem answers" or a few other esoteric options.

As long as the wardialer stays within the robocall constraints (it doesn't hold the line if the recipient hangs up, doesn't stay on the line if sent the disconnect tone, doesn't repeatedly dial the same number) it's considered OK.

This allows one to use a wardialer to map a number range to find out what each number is used for.

Things got a bit trickier when cell phones became available, because suddenly people could be billed for incoming wardials. I'm not sure what the legal fallout of that was, but nowadays most people won't answer a call from an unknown number, and the wardialler will hang up before leaving a message.

nil0bject's picture
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Joined: 2012 Nov 14

then what do you do with the data collected? sell it?

Europa's picture
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Joined: 2018 Nov 19

Not necessarily. It can be useful for just having information. As was stated previously, it is also just useful for keeping your own log of what is in certain exchanges and area codes.

BryMD's picture
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Joined: 2018 Jul 2

Thank you for the explanation, both of you Smile

Still hurts my brain a bit though that I simply cannot make common sense of what both of you are saying. After 10 years as a medical doctor I've learned that this gut feeling usually means that there's a more profound piece to the puzzle yet to be revealed, and I have to keep on digging...

Luckily, I'm off for the weekend Tongue

On the other hand, it might also be the fact that i rarely, if ever, just do something without a long-term strategy in mind. And I'm simply not capable of placing myself in the mindset of doing something just to do something.

Anyways, sorry for bringing this thread off track. Now get back to your coding, friends! Laughing out loud

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

Back in the day, the main use of a wardialer was to find BBSes in your local loop. Then you could share the list of wardialed numbers on the local BBSes so that others could also find all the local numbers they could call with their modem.

Nowadays, that's not as useful because there are so few BBSes, but on the other hand, the ones that exist are exponentially harder to find.

Europa's picture
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Joined: 2018 Nov 19

Thanks! I'll look at that! Laughing out loud

galgot's picture
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Joined: 2014 May 7

Came accross this site :
http://code68k.extropicstudios.com/documentation-links
Could be of some interest.

Europa's picture
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Joined: 2018 Nov 19

Ok, thanks! I'll take a look.

Istarian's picture
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Joined: 2009 Sep 14

They are more targeted at much earlier versions of MacOS/System software, but the following books may be useful if you can't figure out where to start:

Macintosh C Programming Primer: Inside the toolbox using Think C
Macintosh C Programming Primer: Mastering the Toolbox Using Think C

I have them in paper (aka dead tree format), but it looks like you can get ahold of a PDF version here:
https://vintageapple.org/macprogramming/

Dog Cow's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 16

Here is an introductory article:
Mac 68000 Assembly Language Tutorial: Menu Demo

Jatoba's picture
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Joined: 2018 Apr 16

This is very good stuff. Thank you!

Btw, you are the author of "running System 6 on a 512k Mac" and the whole site, right? Really awesome stuff!!! I was at the edge of my seat the entire time reading that article Smile Never seen that website before, but it's completely rad!!

(By the way, it seems many desktop wallpaper links on the site are broken? https://macgui.com/downloads/?file_id=1144 )

Dog Cow's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 16

Yes, I research and write all those articles.

Those files in the Downloads area are so old, and many of them I never hosted myself except for the thumbnail.