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Bolkonskij's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 3
Open Transport for a '030 Mac IIci

Hi folks,

kind of stuck right now and thought I'd just ask my fellow Mac Gardeners for advice. Trying to get Open Transport onto my Macintosh IIci (that is '30 68k Mac) running 7.1 Update 3. Yes, that version of System 7 came without OT bundled.

I've tried my luck with Open Transport 1.3. Gold Master . Trouble is, it's just the folders and the installer won't recognize them. If you create disk copy images from the folders and mount them, the installer will nag that it is not the original floppy media (seriously ...)

I've went on to download Apple Legacy Software CD which has two OT installers for 1.1.2 and 1.2.1. Unfortunately, both are just patches requiring an already installed Open Transport.

Any idea where I could find a working OT for my 68k Mac (any version between 1.x - 1.3 is fine. Or maybe someone has the original OT floppy media that we could image and upload?

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MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

Open Transport v1.1.1 is a good stable version for this '030

I've installed this version on previous occasions from the Apple Dev "You're Special" Edition release of Dec, 1996 (I also own this copy).

It's available on this page as DL# 17

It is a very special release, too. The CD scan on that page is mine (and of that edition) but the upload isn't
(I think it's fogWraith's).

- I see that I have this version as floppy disk images, too. So, it's a little late for me here, but I'll make a page for them (in my) tomorrow morning, and upload them as well.

[Edit] And it's here, now.

cbone's picture
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Joined: 2011 Sep 17

Mike's spot on Smile 1.1.1 will give you what you need for that System 7 version. Once installed, you could make a copy of that System folder to test whether updating that OT makes much of a difference. I think both that S7 version and later OT versions are compatible, so it may come down to added fixes/features and any possible OS/hardware compatibility issues w/versions beyond 1.1.x. Then again, the 'Wish I Were' software tweaks/workarounds may also be all that might be needed to make things work. Research and testing will ultimately get you what you need.

Still, having a 'from scratch' installer would be very nice, of course Smile but having said this, I'm thinking that maybe a stuffed copy (or an image) of the installed OT files could/should also do the trick for you and anyone else in the future.

Bolkonskij's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 3

Sorry for the late reply, but I had been drowning in work the past days. I simply want to thank you (again) MTT - your upload closes an important gap in the Garden library. Will make some floppies from the images tonight and hopefully find time to install them on the IIci.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

That's cool man, thanks. Your request was for something that I knew I had somewhere (both a CD and floppies as it turned out) so it was a good excuse to motivate me to find and archive the floppies here. I hope they are useful for you.

Bolkonskij's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 3

*THUMBS UP*

Images are fine! Installed OT on the IIci yesterday. The easy install option only asked me for the first two floppies during installation.

Doesn't work after a reboot though. The extensions and the control panels sit in the System Folder. But they are "not loaded". At least that's the error I get when trying to open TCP/IP control panel. Something along the lines of "cannot open OT because it was not loaded".

I used an extension manager to check if OT might be disabled. But the extensions sit happily and active in their folder. Strange behavior! In all those years, never ran into that with OT. I think I'll try to update to a later version and see if that will remedy the problem.

Google search turned up nothing on that problem - as usual when you look for System 7 related software problems. Why, oh, why did Apple have to rename OSX to Mac OS? :-/

Sometimes I wish we had a categorized "Help" folder with the answers much alike the one in old MacUser issues.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

Glad to hear the images are OK. Not so pleased to hear they are not working as expected and I can't suggest a workaround. You should be able to run the updater installers over them tho'.

I must fire up my old C660av to see what I have on board there. I know it's OS is System 7.1.1 Pro, but I think I just use AppleTalk over MacTCP on it.

Anyway I hope it gets working for you soon.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

I must fire up my old C660av to see what I have on board there. I know it's OS is System 7.1.1 Pro, but I think I just use AppleTalk over MacTCP on it.

Fired him up. It has Open Transport v1.1.1 on board, and all working correctly. So don't know why it won't do the same for you. My 660av is an '040 Mac tho' I don't think that should make any difference...

cbone's picture
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Joined: 2011 Sep 17

I imagined a fast or virtual PPC with a FMP 4/5 database somewhere where our FMP 4.1 PPC/68k clients could log into with all sorts of Mac-related questions, since I think v4.1 was the very first one that offered an online database option!

But with online tools, I wonder how effective an old Mac client would be online, and then there's the issue of unique serial codes to go around for everyone unless we had a key machine, lol!

Mike's Quadra 660AV (his Centris would be identical since Apple merely renamed it later on) started life with System 7.1, so if you're running the same OS, the chip difference wouldn't/shouldn't make any difference. The IIci should not have any handicap since it's from the first-generation of 'clean' Mac ROMs with 32-bit addressing like the 660.

I did just come across a neat hardware product for older Macs like the IIci and older dirty ROM Macs w/24-bit addressing called the Mac ROM-inator.. it's truly amazing and exciting to see just how many people still develop cool stuff for older Macs!

We (I should really say I) just mainly work with the software (well we do troubleshoot real hardware, just at our personal levels of experience) Wink

Franky233's picture
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Joined: 2019 Apr 6

Hi there,

I've just tested it myself with Basilisk II. I've managed it with a Mac IIci config with System 7 already installed inside a emulated drive. I've updated it with System 7.1, then successfully installed OT with Mike's images and rebooted. All is just working like a charm (extensions loading normally and the control panel also opening as expected). So, I suspect a conflict with another extension perhaps? But, I doubt that it could be a hardware issue. If needed, it could be interested to perform a clean install, may be, then update and install OT and restart the Mac to see what could happening. This could confirm or not about system software issue...

[EDIT] Ah, and of course, don't forget to do a zap-pram before that.

cbone's picture
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Joined: 2011 Sep 17

Ah, the zap PRAM; I had forgotten about that one, Franky! Smile I'm not sure how that's done virtually since I do my 68k 'Mac-ing' on Basilisk II as well.

Yes, the usual tricks do wonders at times and a clean install, or optionally partitioning the hard drive or booting externally from either a hard or zip drive/disk can make it an easy task to rule out system issues.

You can even bless a newly installed system folder within the same drive to check system-related issues/errors (either w/a clean install or drag-and-drop from a vanilla system folder backup), even if the offending system is a vanilla install itself!

Franky233's picture
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Joined: 2019 Apr 6

Ah, yes, I was about to forget it myself too. When something goes weird on a Mac, it's always good to try it. Personally, it was my job 15 years ago. I mean my job was to solve all the problems for customers on Macs. I could tell you a lot of stories about those tasks, just like someone else, you know... Smile But, there is so many things to tell, well. Anyway, if you have not already read my story, you can if you want. Wink

cbone's picture
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Joined: 2011 Sep 17

I'm in awe Smile but not surprised: I've seen that we get the best of the best in here, and then some, lol!

Your Classic Mac list is very similar to mine; worked at an Apple reseller abroad, I did own a Classic first, but worked with an Se/30s as well as a Mac IIci wishing it was an fx, lol.. then I had a P578, P630, LC5420, PM8500, P3630, P6400, as well as a number of Powerbooks. It's been a real fun ride using Classic and there's nothing quite like Apple's original OS!

Bolkonskij's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 3

PRAM zap is the classic but unfortunately doesn't solve the problem here. Not sure what else I could do at this point other than do a complete reinstall of the OS. Obviously something within my setup got messed up.

Franky233's picture
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Joined: 2019 Apr 6

Sorry that would not work. Sad Before reinstalling, you should trash concerned preference(s) at least (don't know the name)... After that you should also try to put a special character before the name of the extension to be loaded 1st at startup (if you have several ones). If none of theses work, then you should proceed with an install, of course. Best would be to install it on a blank partition.

Bolkonskij's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 3

Thanks for trying out and helping, guys! Appreciate it. Yeah, something is odd here. I'll first try the PRAM zap and the update route to see what happens. Hopefully I'll have some time and patience left tonight, after hosting a children's birthday party for my 3-year old daughter... (the parents among you may now pity me Smile )