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Doommaster1994's picture
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Joined: 2009 Oct 17
Memory Problem in Basilisk II/SheepShaver

Hello,
I recently installed Digital Performer 3 on Basilisk II and Sheepshaver, but when I try to run it, Mac tells me that I don't have enough memory to run the program. On Basilisk, I tried increasing the memory and that just made it so that when you start the emulator, it's just a gray screen and the startup screen isn't there, making it impossible to reinstall. Is there any other way to fix this so I can run Digital Performer? Basilisk uses OS 7.5.3 and I installed OS 8.5 on Sheepshaver using the original CD.
Thanks

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hdfkhdsahjhgfaddfkkjlafhu's picture
Joined: 2009 Jun 22

What ROM images are you using? You were probably setting the RAM to a value that an actual old Mac couldnt handle. Also, try opening up the get info window for the app and see if you can change the minimum memory.

Doommaster1994's picture
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Joined: 2009 Oct 17

I was using the PERFORMA.ROM file for Basilisk II and the QUADRA650.ROM for Sheepshaver. I have gotten Digital Performer 3 to work on my OS 9 machine, but it would be nice to run it on an emulator, and the box says it's compatible with OS 7 to OS 9.
Thanks for the reply.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

@Doommaster1994:

I was using the PERFORMA.ROM file for Basilisk II and the QUADRA650.ROM for Sheepshaver.

Is this a typo? The Q650 ROM is a 68040 ROM suitable for 68k Basilisk II (it won't work with SheepShaver). SheepShaver requires an "Old World" or a "New World" PPC ROM.

Doommaster1994's picture
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It's called QUAD650.ROM. I downloaded it from redundantrobot's Sheepshaver tutorial and got it working on Basilisk. Now I've recently encountered another problem. When I try to load the QUAD650.ROM file, Sheepshaver gives me this error:
'Invalid ROM file size. SheepShaver requires a 4MB PCI PowerMac ROM.'
And it's strange because I was originally using the QUAD650.ROM file and it was working just fine. I used that ROM because in redundantrobot's tutorial, he said it was the best one for Sheepshaver.
Again, thanks for the reply.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

@Doommaster1994: Q650 & QUAD650 are abbreviations of the same thing. Being a ROM of the Quadra Macintosh, Model type: 650, a 68040 CPU Macintosh - it is also a 1MB ROM.

The SheepShaver error you are getting is correct, SheepShaver does require a 4 MB PPC ROM, either whats termed as an "Old World" or a "New World" ROM will do. Although, an "Old World" ROM will allow you to run earlier Mac OS's on SheepShaver than a "New World" ROM will.

HTH

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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

I only can second the above. Sheepshaver is an emulator which partially builds a Power Macintosh 9500 or 9600 PPC604 / 132MHz from software. Therefore a PCI Power Macintosh ROM or an early version of New World Mac's Mac OS ROM is essential to operate.
From my point of view, the 4MB PCI Power Macintosh ROM, also called Old World ROM, should be preferred for compatibility reasons.

In case you would like to provide a download link for Digital Performer 3 I might give it a try myself.
What host system are you on? Things may differ according to that (unfortunately).

Doommaster1994's picture
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The company that makes Digital Performer is still running, so I don't think it would be a good idea to post it for download. I am using the original CD for it. I downloaded the New World ROM and Sheepshaver works, but like last time, it tells me that there is not enough virtual memory for extensions. Is there a way around that? I also reinstalled Basilisk II. I For Sheepshaver, I installed OS 8.5 via the original CD. I'm not sure if that affects anything. Another problem I've had with it is that there is no sound. Sheepshaver also runs slow on my computer, I'm not sure why, as this is a gaming PC and everything else runs at normal speed, even Basilisk.
For Digital Performer 3, when I try running it, here's what it tells me:
"There is not enough memory to open "Digital Performer 3.01" (44,806 K needed, 5,152 K available).

Closing windows or quitting desk accessories can make more memory available."

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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

Sure, I see your point about an upload.
You seem to be using a Windows host for BII / SS. So most Mac devices should work out of the box.
(You may have noticed, that I am always recommending Mandriva Linux, because it is more compatible and faster)
For your SS setup try this :
1.Turn off virtual memory on the Mac. This does not work well, instead you may allocate more memory than you physically have to SS in the GUI. SS makes use of the Windows virtual memory management.
2.Open the sound control panel of 8.5. It is located on your Mac HD in the Apple Extras folder, but not in the control panel folder. Set sound output to "Built In".
3.After restart, open the Get Info dialog for your app. To do so, move the mouse pointer over the app's icon and press "Alt + I" , change to "Memory" in the panel and type in the desired amount of memory for DP3.

Restart SS and try again. Good luck.
Some apps just wont work with emulation, e.g. if they are relying on some special hardware, SCSI disks or so. The Mac OS may play some role too, with emulation. I feel, that 7.6 is the fastest and most compatible OS for SheepShaver.

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For Step 1, I can't figure out how to do that. I don't see it in the Memory section of the Mac. I do own a real Mac computer and in the Memory section, there is a Virtual Memory thing in there, but not in here.
For step 2, I got to Apple Extras and all I could find was a folder called Sound Control Panel and you said not to go there.
On step 3, I can't find that. On the desktop, I went to file>Get Info>General Information and that's as close as I got. I did Alt+I there but nothing happened.
I thank you so much for your help and any further help.

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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

For Step 1, thats weird. The virtual memory adjustment was there, at least since 7.5, and you already did perform a clean install of 8.5 for SheepShaver. Is you disk green with a big white 8 on it?
For step 2, it is exactly the right place to turn sound on. MacHD>Apple Extras>Sound Control Panel>Sound
then pulldown menu to "Sound Output" > check "Built-in"
This procedure, of course is only to fix your sound output and has nothing to do with DP3.
On step 3, File >Get Info (just the same as Alt+I) then pulldown menu to Memory and there you go.
I hope so at least Smile

If you cant get to virtual memory at all, you might try OS9 and assign 1024MB to SS, OS9 will automatically defunct virtual memory, as you have more than 995MB memory installed.

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Joined: 2009 Oct 17

Thanks again for your help and the reply.
In the emulator under memory, all that is there is Disk Cache and RAM Disk, and I know there's supposed to be a Virtual Memory part in there because I own a real Mac 8.5 computer and it's there. When I start up the emulator, the OS warns me how there will not be enough virtual memory for extensions.
Yes, my disc is green with a white '8' on it. On the box, it says promotional copy. Don't think that affects anything (I got the disc from my aunt).
OK, I got step 2 done, the music and sound work on Wolfenstein 3D (but the game still runs slow unless played on a shorter screen, not sure if I can fix that in Sheepshaver).
For Step 3, I got into the memory thing, but there's a mimimum and preferred size I can only set, and when I set it to the right amount (59,724 K) and when I try to run the program, it says I only have 4,979 KB available.
Thanks to your help, I am getting closer.

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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

How much is your physical RAM, and what amount did you assign to SheepShaver?
With your gaming machine, I suppose you can set SS RAM to 1024. Be sure to set RAM at a reasonable value.
OS9 for example will need about 32MB, just for the finder and this is SS default RAM setting, I think.
If you can set RAM to 1024, you will have more than enough Mac RAM for any application. Try to double the "Preferred Size" of your app and see what happens. Are you running other Mac apps that eat up memory at the same time?
We seem to talk about 60kByte or so, that is a ridiculous small amount.
Still you might try to reduce the number of screen colours of the Mac, to see if that changes things.

I am unsure about your "promotional copy" that sounds suspicious to me.
Maybe you should try another release, any retail CD from 8.0 to 9.0 should do fine with SS and the New World ROM.

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I do have another copy of OS 8.5 (same kind of disc). I have 2 Gigs of RAM. Under the Memory tab of SS, it's memory is defaultly set to 16 MB. I'm not sure if that affects anything or if that's too small an amount. I would install DP3 on my real Mac but there's not enough disk space to install it. On the emulator, it's fully installed.

OK I have a little update, I changed the MB to 50, changed the preferred size to 11948 (That's double the amount of the original amount needed to run DP3) and I get these messages:
"This computer's Disk Cache Size is only 1600K.

Digital Performer will work better with a larger Cache Size. We recommend at least 2048K, but consider setting it even higher if you have sufficient RAM.

Would you like to change the setting now? (Note that a new setting will not take effect until you restart the computer.)"
I have the choice between Yes, Later and Stop Asking. No matter which one I click, I get these errors:
"MacOS error:
File not found (-43)"
"MacOS error:
Ran out of memory (-108)"
Again thanks so much for your help.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

@Doommaster1994: You have plenty of RAM on your PC. Try setting RAM in the SheepShaver GUI to 256MB or more (my own SS is set to 512MB RAM).

Doing so makes the Mac increase its own RAM cache automatically by default, based on the amount of physical RAM it has to use. With my SS set to 512MB I get 8160K auto-allocated for its cache. Anyway, giving your SheepShaver more RAM will possibly make those error messages go away.

Also; Both Basilisk II & SheepShaver do not support virtual memory of any kind on the Mac side. At least this is my experience when running either of these emulators on Windows (it may be different on other platforms) and probably why you don't see the option to turn on VM as you would in a real Mac's Control Panel.

Balrog's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 24

Digital Performer 3 will probably require MESS to run properly -- MESS nicely emulates a Mac IIcx with sound and Mode32 working (in svn builds or when 0.141 comes out), or a Mac IIci, but with broken sound.

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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

Like MikeTomTom said, try to set SheepShaver's RAM to the highest possible value, unless you need plenty of RAM for other PC tasks at the same time. As long as you have only little RAM with SheepShaver: No fun at all.
If you are suffering from frequent MacOS errors, be sure to repair your boot disk with Disk First Aid. This is done best, when booting form another volume e.g. your OS8.5 CD.
What SheepShaver build are you using? I have the virtual memory setting with Linux and XP hosts for OS 7.6 to 9.0. BTW 7.6 defaults to virtual memory "on" no matter how much RAM is assigned to SheepShaver.
Darek says on his SoftMac site: "If Mac OS 7.6 or Mac OS 8 fails to boot right after you've installed it, it is because Mac OS has turned on Virtual Memory by default. Reboot the Mac, hold down the Shift key to skip loading extensions, then go into the Memory control panel as described above and turn off Virtual Memory. Also check to make sure that A/ROSE or Open Transport extensions are removed from the System Folder."

If you did not do so already, you might get yourself the latest SheepShaver build from emaculation.com.

One last thing: For what kind of Mac has Digital Performer 3 been designed? Was it made for OS9 exclusively?
Reading about MIDI, MOTU and MAS, it might be, that the app is not going to work with an EMULATED PPC604 at all. Also, some apps those days would require a 604e or 750 aka G3.

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Joined: 2011 Jan 10

This program needs both real memory and virtual memory (Paging File), and virtual memory in Mac OS requires an MMU, thus, Digital Perform 3 requires an MMU in a indirectly form, hardware that SheepShaver and BasiliskII can't emulate.

Doommaster1994's picture
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Joined: 2009 Oct 17

Ah OK, well thanks for your help guys, seriously, I really appreciate it. What about an older version of DP? Wouldn't something like 1.0 work on there?

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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

I don't want to scatter your illusions in any way and I am no expert for sure, but earlier versions had to rely heavily on digital signal processors, as the cpu's those days were far too slow. DSP's would mean a no go for emulation.
To me, running DP5 with OSX natively or in a virtual machine seems to be more likely to achieve.
Some Hackintosh guides and may be Qemu might spring to mind for doing so.

MikeTomTom's picture
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@24bit:

...earlier versions had to rely heavily on digital signal processors...

This software sounds to like its designed for the AV Macs, ('040 ROMs not supported by any emulator, don't know about the PPC AV's). Probably would be at home running on my trusty ol' 660AV tho' Wink