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enryfox's picture
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Mac Mini G4 Panther install DVD

I have a Mac Mini G4 mid 2005 which shipped with Tiger 10.4.0. I would like to use it to run classic, but on tiger in runs really bad. I have read Panther is much better with classic, but I cannot find the DVD required to boot my mini (it requires panther 10.3.7). Does anyone has the panther mac Mini install DVD ?
Can I use tiger disc 2 to install Classic on panther ?

thanks
bye

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MikeTomTom's picture
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If your Mac shipped with Tiger, this usually means you can't install an earlier version OS to it.
Which model Mini is it? - see EveryMac specs here. If yours is from Jul/Aug '05 then it might be OK with a bootable 10.3.7 disc.

Re: installing Classic to Panther. You can use one of the full Classic install images from here at the MG, or if Classic is on the Panther CD/DVD's, then use that (if Panther is installable on your Mini).

What app in particular sucks when running under Classic on the Mini? Not all classic apps run well under classic and would prefer to be in a native classic environment only. That is, it may not be Tiger that's the problem.

sfp1954's picture
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How much RAM do you have? In my experience Tiger needs at least 756MB. Anything less and the performance suffers. I have run classic under Tiger on machines as slow as a 500MHz G3 Pismo without issues as long as I have between 756MB and 1GB of RAM.

As Mike said, in general you cannot "install" classic on an OSX machine. You have to drag a complete 9.2 System folder onto your hard drive.

enryfox's picture
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My mini is the 1st gen from 2005 with a G4 PPC at 1,25 GHz. It was originally sold with 256Mb of ram and OS X 10.3.7, but when mine got shipped Apple bumped memory to 512Mb and OS X to the then just released 10.4. But the hardware is otherwise identical and according to all specs it can boot 10.3.7.

In later years I upgraded the RAM to 1 GB (maximum supported) and tiger runs smooth and fine. The problem with classic under Tiger is mostly stability, the trueBlue task very often occupies 100% of the CPU and it has to be killed; I think apple did not care very much about that as they were to drop the feature in next OS X release.

Panther seems to have a better classic support, but I cannot boot the mini with a retail Panther install CD, it requires its specific install DVD.

I currently have a two DVD's set and the second disc contains the classic env install; I'm not sure that would work with panther, I think that installation is tiger only.

thanks
bye

sfp1954's picture
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Joined: 2013 Dec 29

I'll look around.
I may have a 10.3.7 install for 1.25GHz Aluminum Powerbook which might be compatible.

butterburger's picture
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Here I instruct how to install a build of OS X which is too old for a Mac, then update that installed-OS to a newer/later/higher build/point-release which is supported by a Mac.

enryfox #post-11249
I would like to use it to run classic, but on tiger in runs really bad. I have read Panther is much better with classic

Where did you read this? I am very interested in "Classic Mode"/"Classic Environment", its compatibility and how it changed as OS X matured. I would appreciate comments regarding Classic from anyone. As I understand it, a big line can be drawn between Jaguar (10.2) and Panther (10.3): Panther's Classic is double-buffered, which breaks many games (and likely other high-performance visual applications). I would expect Tiger's Classic to be exactly as (not-)compatible as Panther's Classic.

enryfox's picture
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My first hand experience with classic on tiger: disappointing. Sheepshaver and Basilisk II on my intel iMac are much faster and have less problems. Only a couple of pool games worked "better" in classics: in sheepshaver they have problems with mouse emulation but in classic the 3D rendering is less smooth and the cpu easily spikes to 100%. Anything that runs fine in Classic runs as well (albeit faster) in Sheepshaver or Basilisk II.

I looked up on google and in some forums several users complained that tiger had a worse support for classic than panther; as a matter of fact same games here in macintosh garden are reported to work in classic up to panther. But I have no direct experience with panther; what I really like is to be able t boot the mini in MacOs 9 natively, but it is simply not possible.

GungaBongo's picture
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Ever find that elusive Mac-mini 10.3.7 install disk set? (Also looking, here.) And OS 9.2.2 on a 2005 Mac Mini is almost @ 100% over at MacOS9Lives.com •If not a current member there... join to download this file... http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2143.0.html (free).

sfp1954's picture
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I have a lot of OS 9 machines.
Wallstreets, Lombards, Pismos, a 500 MHz Titanium and an 867MHz Titanium (with one "blue" column).
Depends on the requirements of the game you want to run.

themacmeister's picture
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"trueBlue task"

???? I don't seem to recall this one?! Is it possible this is third-party?

enryfox's picture
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The task responsible for launching and managing Mac OS 9.2 inside OSX is internally named trueblue (from blue box I guess, the Mac OS 8 emulation in Rhapsody). If you have a PPC mac with OSX 10.3/4 start classic and check the activity monitor.

sfp1954's picture
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Found the 10.3.7 15"-17" G4 Powerbook install DVD (2005) if you want to give it a shot on the Mini.

muttztfz's picture
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I know this discussion is from 2016, I just wanted to add: On my Mac mini, last model 2005, silent upgrade 1.5 GHz G4 model, I was able to install a stock Panther (10.3.something) without any modification. It did't run well, it cannot set the resolution properly. But this is quickly fixed once you've applied the 10.3.9 Combo update.

Have you tried any Panther installer yet? It should work...

Also, I've never ever heard that Classic is any different on Panther than on Tiger. It should be exactly the same. They did change Classic and some of the Extensions for the integration of Mac OS 9.2.1/9.2.2 on Mac OS X, but that was from Jaguar to Panther... I'm not 100% certain so I might be wrong about this, but from 10.3.9 to 10.4.x it shouldn't be any different.

Jatoba's picture
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For those asking for the elusive Mac OS X 10.3.7 Panther install disc that came with the earliest Mac mini G4s, someone was kind enough to mention on the Mac mini OS X Tiger download page of the Garden that it has been hosted on The Internet Archive, namely here:

https://archive.org/details/691-5312-A2ZMac_mini._Mac_OS_X_Install_v10.3...

Without this disc, one can't straightforwardly install back any client version of Mac OS X Panther on any of the 4 Mac mini G4 models that were made. Server versions of Panther 10.3.4 and 10.3.9 are available in the Garden, however, and install just fine on the minis.

As for Classic on Tiger vs. Panther goes, however, to my knowledge, there's absolutely nothing Panther does better, and that such a claim is nothing but a baseless myth, I figure. Interesting to know Jaguar supposedly runs some things better with Classic, though, but, alas, the mini can't have Jaguar running (unless someone reports Mac-on-Mac on Panther on the Mac Mini to be working!), but then again, thanks to the folks at MacOS9Lives, we have the vastly superior option of running OS 9 on the mini itself! Smile

MikeTomTom's picture
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the elusive Mac OS X 10.3.7 Panther install disc that came with the earliest Mac mini G4s

I can confirm that this 10.3.7 install disc, now hosted at the Internet Archive, does indeed boot up my 2005 G4 Mac mini - which also had shipped with Tiger 10.4 (same as the OP).

I've yet to decide whether to install it. I just wanted to see if it would get that far. It looks very do-able.

Jatoba's picture
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I just tried it myself, as well, and made a few important discoveries for Mac mini G4 owners wanting to do this: while the Server versions of Panther 10.3.4 and 10.3.9 install on any of the 4 mini models, this Client 10.3.7 disc will, by default, only install on the original 2 Mac mini G4 models, 1.25 GHz and 1.42 GHz (internally called "PowerMac10,1"), while the 2 silent upgrade Mac mini G4 models, 1.33 GHz and 1.5 GHz (internally called "PowerMac10,2"), require minimal editing of some of the disc's install packages for a seamless install. It works fine and I just installed it on my 1.5 GHz mini this way.

The base trick required is pretty famous. It's basically this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngJ9q9wHcS0
https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/279088-how-to-patch-any-mac-os-x...
Just make sure to make visible all hidden files on your Mac, with this command on Terminal: defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles TRUE
Then relaunch Finder with Option+Command+Escape to see the change take effect in the GUI.

The difference from those guides is that you don't need to edit the "Info.plist" file of the "OSInstall.mpkg" package, but instead of the following packages:
System > Installation > Packages > Bundled Software.mpkg
System > Installation > Packages > .package > AppleWorks Languages.mpkg
System > Installation > Packages > .package > CPU Help Files.mpkg
All you need to replace in these files is "PowerMac10,1" with "PowerMac10,2". (Only 1 character change.)

And voilá. Running it on my 1.5 GHz mini as we speak.

SkyCapt's picture
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Joined: 2017 Jan 11

Here's an alternative involving no disc editing:
http://macintoshgarden.org/forum/booting-installing-model-specific-osx-d...

hey MikeTomTom, i misspelled new-world in that topic's url, can we correct it or just leave it?

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While using Panther for Classic might be a little better than Tiger's Classic, the best improvement for Classicmode would be if your Macmini's can rewind back to Jaguar 10.2.x

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It's a little better to invoke AllFiles like this:
"defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles -bool YES"
This way, if you elect to use "Property List Editor" on Library/Preferences/com.apple.finder.plist then you can invert the AllFiles state with one click instead of typing a string of keys.

MikeTomTom's picture
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i misspelled new-world in that topic's url, can we correct it or just leave it?

You can correct the title of forum topics that you've created when you do an edit of the topic. The link to the page that is created when you first save a draft remains the same. Regardless of subsequent corrections to the title, the link to the page remains unaffected. So making corrections to a title is no problem.

[Edit] Oh, you mean the spelling error is in the actual URL, itself. Sure, you should also be able to edit & correct that yourself - but I went ahead and corrected it, anyway. - The link in your post above, I also corrected.