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SiliconGraphics's picture
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Joined: 2019 Aug 11
Install mac os 8 on QEMU

It is the first time that I use this program. and wanted to know is it possible to install mac os 8.

Does this program perform better than sheephaver?

I want to use it for old applications.

they would have a tutorial on how to make the system work with the best performance.

and manuals that can explain how the program is used.

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fogWraith's picture
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Joined: 2009 Oct 23

As far as I know, this is not yet possible... 9.0.4 and up on the other hand is.
I've created these images though.

I can't vouch for any games, but I feel like QEMU is being much more stable than SheepShaver.
For most of the guides and emu discussions when assistance is required, E-Maculation is always spot on.

24bit's picture
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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

Much depends on how old the apps are you want to run, actually.
With titles mostly from the 7.5 or 8.0 era, SheepShaver or Basilisk II would be my choice.
If you have an old Windows 32bit rig, Basilisk II Build 142 is the one for you, as HD floppy and SCSI support are still available - given you have a SCSI HBA installed.
(Floppy support is working with Windows 10 64bit also.)

For me, both SheepShaver and Basilisk II did crash very seldom, less often than my real Macs. Wink
Both emulators offer a virtual drive representing the host OS for easy file transfer, as you will know.
(It could be that both emulators are too fast for some oldish apps. In that case, MiniVMac II emulating a Mac II with 8MB RAM may be the best solution.)

QemuPPC is best for a bunch of apps apps that will not run with SheepShaver, like MS Office 98.
The emulator is noticeable slower than SheepShaver but offers way better compatibility, as fogWraith wrote above.
Qemu setup is done by a single command line, no GUI - not very Mac like. Smile
Also there is no virtual host drive afaik, CD or DVD images may be swapped on the fly, though.
If you need sound, you have to use a "Screamer" build for now and keep the Mac´s RAM at 512MB of at least well below 1024MB and have virtual memory on the Mac side enabled.

In the long run, QemuPPC may outperform SheepShaver, as SheepShaver uses many hacks for speed alone and needs a coherent RAM area at a place where modern host OS dislike it.

cbone's picture
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Joined: 2011 Sep 17

I may have come across this on other posts dealing with SheepShaver and QEMU, but has anyone tried to use the same OS 9.0.4 image on both QEMU and SheepShaver? Obviously not accessed at the same time of course.

One thing I've done for QEMU is I have two command files, one named HD to boot from C and a second called CD to boot from D. I've even added hard drive and CD-ROM icons and placed the HD command on my Dock to quickly launch it from there.

24bit's picture
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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

Qemu does boot from a 9.0.4 CD on my side with the 9.0.4 enabler, probably for G3 Macs.
I can´t see much benefit running 9.0.4 with Qemu.
Booting Qemu from a SheepShaver disk or vice versa may not work well - G3 Mac and PPC 603 differ too much methinks.

rbshep's picture
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Joined: 2020 Mar 5

Not tried this personally - but one thing you would need to take into account is that SheepShaver uses raw HFS images (some sort of simple floppy-disk style access), whereas QEMU emulates an ATA disk, so requires a partition map and driver partitions on the (emulated) drive image to work.

You could in theory use losetup (if it's RAW) or qemu-nbd (if it's Qcow2) on linux to attach the QEMU image as a device file, and then configure SheepShaver to access /dev/loopNNpN or /dev/nbd0p9 or whatever - after changing permissions on the relevant device file.

blkid will help you find the large HFS partition you're looking for (probably p9 if 'formatted' with Drive Setup / diskutil - though e.g. using Silverlining, p6 is the first HFS partition). Personally, i've found qemu-nbd to be unstable for lots of writing, so I prefer RAW images to Qcow2 in QEMU.

It should work in theory for booting - i use SS to transfer stuff to hfs disks and images all the time. I've managed to boot 7.5 - 8.1 images in both B2 and SS before Smile

cbone's picture
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Joined: 2011 Sep 17

I use SS to transfer stuff to hfs disks and images all the time. I've managed to boot 7.5 - 8.1 images in both B2 and SS before Smile

Aha! So sharing a boot volume between Basilisk II and SheepShaver is possible, this is really great info!

Thanks Rbshep Smile

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

Possible, yes... but you don't want it loaded by both at the same time.

Personally, I tend to mount filesystems on the host and then make the /dev/disk available to the emulator. My OS 9.2.2 QEMU image is also configured to load for my OS X 10.4.11 configuration to be used as the Classic environment. I used my 9.0.4 image across earlier versions of QEMU and SheepShaver, but found that there were inconsistencies that caused stability issues, so went to clean installs for each environment. It's possible I could cobble together something under current QEMU that would also work under SheepShaver, but I generally don't attempt to run 9.0.4 under QEMU anymore; I leave that to SheepShaver.

cbone's picture
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Joined: 2011 Sep 17

Yes, understood, or as a buddy of mine likes to say, 'heard'! Smile

I was thinking more of custom, pre-configured OS builds that can be run on both emulators with accompanying software that works in both, as well as for backups in case the OS gets trashed by an install gone awry, that sort of thing. There may be some potential advantages to running a particular software in one emulator and another in the other one, but I was shooting for a 'more-bang-for-your-emulators' scenario.

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

Well, the Mac OS Recovery CD that boots 7.6.1 will run on any Old World 32-bit clean Mac with a bootable CD-ROM drive. It also boots on BII and SheepShaver.

cbone's picture
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Joined: 2011 Sep 17

Aha! One of my builds has that very same system folder Smile I copied it off the CD as I rescued my OS 8.1 HD image when an extension made it crash during startup.

I did love how fast it started up! I kept the OS in there by simply blessing my OS 8.1 folder once I got it going again.

rbshep's picture
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Joined: 2020 Mar 5

I was thinking more of custom, pre-configured OS builds that can be run on both emulators with accompanying software that works in both, as well as for backups in case the OS gets trashed by an install gone awry, that sort of thing.

This is a great idea cbone Smile I 'lost' a build recently to Macromedia Sound Studio overwriting Quicktime with an ancient version.

What are apps and extra software after all except files copied to particular folders after all? Why should we endlessly run our 'installer vises' each time we try a new machine or emulator out? I could, in theory, write some bash scripts to copy things in and out of HFS (not plus!) images to/from MacBinary files. I was already thinking of 'updating' the software in some of the restore images this way (e.g. New IE files, but with same icon positions).

The tricky bit for me is not being able to do these things on device as i don't know anything about AppleScript. Even under Tiger i'd love to find a tool that could change the path of an alias / or make it relative.

The ultimate goal would be package management, and the ability to easily move settings from one machine to another (aliases could be fixed, file paths could be changed within config files - so long as they are a simple format - or the paths in aliases). e.g. why should i have to recreate my dragthing dock just because the apps are now stored on a volume with a different name (but with the rest of the path being the same)?

The lack of an interactive shell on device really annoys me on Mac OS though. It makes trying things out programatically seem harder than they should be, or probably are for that matter!.

Hopefully i'll get bloody minded enough one of these days to give AppleScript a go. Though not being able to just open some sort of shell to test the syntax of a single statement interactively is going to wind me up! I'd imagine this is why the rift between user and developer feels so wide under classic. Although perhaps MacPython or MacPerl or even MacTcl could help here, if they have sufficient native OS functionality (dealing with resources, encodings etc).

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

While I haven't heard of any headway booting OS 8 on QEMU, you can (slowly) run 8.6 in QEMU inside OS X Server 1.2v3. This version uses 8.6 for its classic environment. If anyone knows of a way to extract the system folder from the UDF volume, it's possible we could directly boot it in QEMU on an HFS volume Smile

Meanwhile, there have been a few squeaks out of the QEMU-68k team; nothing's published yet AFAIK, but they've got some preliminary booting working. Seems to me that what they really need is a clean-room ROM; I've suggested creating one based on Executor code in the past, and there's another group now doing a clean-room 68k emulator (https://mace.software) whose work could also contribute. Possibly from here we could get to 68040 emulation of OS 8.1 in QEMU Smile