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Maxor127's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 4
imaging original Journeyman Project 1

I'm trying to create a disk image from my CD of the original 1993 Journeyman Project for backup purposes. I'm not sure which format to make it. It says the it supports System 6.07 or newer.

I only have access to Mac emulation via Windows now, and I can't get the CD working in Basilisk II and System 7 or 7.5.5, maybe because it doesn't have CD extension? I don't remember how to get that.

Anyways, I read a couple of the guides I found on here. I can get the CD recognized and game running in Sheepshaver with System 9.0.2. When I try to make a Disk Copy image, I get an error -50. I can make a Toast image with Toast 4.1.3 that seems to work in Sheepshaver Mac OS 9.0.2, but I only tried it for a little bit. It also mounts in Virtual CD/DVD ROM Utility, but when I create an image with that utility, the resulting toast or iso file it creates seems to freeze up Toast when I try to mount, but it mounts fine in the utility. And the iso file doesn't seem to be recognized in Windows.

Another thing I noticed is iTunes sees audio tracks on the CD that I never knew existed. I'm assuming that's something that isn't preserved in Toast. That lead me to see in one of the guides that Windows programs like ImgBurn could work to create bin/cue image. So I tried that, but none of the Mac programs recognize or will mount the bin/cue files.

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MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

Yes you will have problems mounting bin/cue in a Mac.

If an original CD contains both data plus audio tracks, then going the bin/cue route is the best option, as it preserves the original CD correctly for posterity.

Toast, I believe can burn bin/cue back to CD media, but ImgBurn does an excellent job in both directions with this kind of Mac media; Burning and ripping.

It is possible to create an image from just the data part, that can be mounted in a Mac or emulator, the audio part can be treated differently, either imaged to audio or mp3 and mounted separately for use in emulators as a mounted image to play along with a game.

But for preserving both data and audio tracks in their original form, please go down the bin/cue path.

Maxor127's picture
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So the toast image I created just has the data part that contains the game?

And bin/cue would only be for having an exact image of the CD with all data and audio to copy to a new CD? I tried mounting the bin/cue file that I made with ImgBurn in Windows with WinCDEmu, but Sheepshaver won't start if I have a CD in. And I can't load it then try mounting the CD because WinCDEmu doesn't seem to leave a persistent virtual drive if no image is mounted, and Sheepshaver doesn't load if I try to trick it into starting with the non-existent virtual drive letter.

And I don't think the bin/cue was created properly since I assumed I could at least mount it in Windows and see the audio tracks from the original CD. But the tracks are completely different and seem glitched.

MikeTomTom's picture
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So the toast image I created just has the data part that contains the game?

Getting a file-size reading on both the toast image and the bin file would probably show a difference if any.

I don't think the bin/cue was created properly

  • Start up ImgBurn, click the option "Verify disc" (lower left corner of the ImgBurn startup window).
    1. In the window that follows, make sure the checkbox "Verify Against Image File" is checked.
    2. Insert the original CD into the tray to verify against your bin/cue file.
    3. Locate and select the .CUE file (contains the info of what/where to verify in the bin content).
    4. Run the verification test.
    5. When done the ImgBurn log will return MD5 checksums on both the device and the image file.
      For example:
      • Device MD5: 0bfd0f3bb2ea2ede3d326dcbebfcb221
      • Image MD5: 0bfd0f3bb2ea2ede3d326dcbebfcb221

If all goes well there won't be any errors and the ImgBurn log will show matching MD5 checksums. If they don't match, then there is a problem. But if they do match then that's pretty much a guarantee of success (despite any difficulty of being able to play them under emulation).

Do archive the bin/cue, it's the only way to preserve the original content should the original CD deteriorate over time. You can create separate data and music content for playing under emulation, but also having the bin/cue archived is the only way to preserve it in the original form as a genuine and unmodified copy of the master pressing.

[Edit] Also, after creating the bin/cue using ImgBurn, you can use WinBin2Iso to convert the .bin file to an .iso file. This you can add as a disk in either Basilisk II or SheepShaver's GUI as an additional disk drive. You will be able to install and then play the game this way, but the CD audio part will still be unavailable.

Maxor127's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 4

Imgburn stalled at 0% while verifying and the CD stopped spinning. I gave up after 3 minutes.

But I think I figured it out. I installed Alcohol 120% Free Edition to try creating a bin/cue image with that. I had the same issues mounting with WinCDEmu. Then I mounted with Alcohol's virtual drive, and the audio portion finally looked correct. Then I loaded up Sheepshaver, and the Mac disc worked properly in that too. The Imgburn copy worked too.

Is bin/cue better than mds/mdf? Some other programs I tried used that instead. I had to force Alcohol 120% to use bin/cue instead. The mdf file is larger than the bin file.

And I notice the cue files created by Alcohol and Imgburn have exactly a 2 second difference in index times. The Imgburn cue start times seem to match exactly based on Exact Audio Copy (EAC), and the Alcohol cue times are exactly 2 seconds behind. Except both are wrong for the time immediately after PREGAP 00:02:00. Both have 49:29:46, but EAC shows 49:31:46. And if I mount the CD in EAC, the Alcohol image is 2 seconds ahead while the Imgburn image has the exact same start times as the original disc.

mrdav's picture
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Joined: 2011 Dec 3

-->Is bin/cue better than mds/mdf<-----

I prefer bin/cue because Toast can burn a CD from it.

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

bin/cue is also useful in that you can edit the cue file if your timings are off, as well as easily tracking the track data.

MDS/MDF has the advantage of being able to record subtrack data and other copy protection-related information that bin/cue can't handle. But it's not as easy to work with, and there are only a few imaging tools that can use it.

Maxor127's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 4

I'm assuming most old pre-OS 9 Mac games don't have copy protection beyond disc check.

Are TOAST files essentially ISO files? I created an ISO of my copy of Return to Zork just in case I needed a backup because I remember it being especially problematic to get running without the actual CD. But I already have the TOAST file from this site, which I think actually allows the game to run from what I remember. The DiskCopy IMG version would still ask for the CD.

And I created a bin/cue of Battle Chess Enhanced because I know for sure it has CD audio tracks. And that actually verified fine in Imgburn, so I'm even more confused why Journeyman Project stalled at 0%. Hopefully nothing is wrong with the CD.

Most of my old Mac software is buried away, so I'm just grabbing what I can easily get to and that I think would benefit from a more accurate CD image.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

Toast stamps all of it's output as .toast - yet most copies it makes of data CD/DVD media will be .iso files. Toast probably stamps them as .toast so folks will associate the branding and only use Toast to burn or mount them. I encounter few problems by changing .toast to .iso when using other CD/DVD tools on any platform.

Shame about the Journeyman Project not verifying, this would indicate a problem with the CD itself. Have you tried making a fresh bin/cue from it and re-testing?

Maxor127's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 4

Yes, I tried making a fresh bin/cue and had the same result.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

No good. It might pay to archive what you can from it before the CD deteriorates further, should there be a problem with it (its kind of looking that way).

Unfortunately I don't own a copy of this CD to test it further, myself.

MacTouch's picture
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Joined: 2016 Mar 19

Hi,

If you are talking about the Journeyman Project Turbo, I have a copy that I have downloaded before it was removed from here. The thing I can confirm is there is an audio track, I have seen it in SheepShaver...

mrdav's picture
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Joined: 2011 Dec 3

I have an original CD of Journeyman Project Turbo and it is not a mixed mode CD. i.e. it does not have separate audio tracks. Any audio is incorporated on the single data (game) track. This is why I used a Toast image and not bin/cue when I originally uploaded it to the page. However, Maxor127 has a CD with audio tracks (as evidenced by iTunes recognising them when the disc is mounted), and from the description it is the original Project 1 from 1993 (not TURBO which is a re-release from 1994). We do not have a copy of the 1993 version.

Maxor127's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 4

Correct, I have the original non-Turbo version. I mostly care about the original because it has unused video files that I remember I could watch in Quicktime. I don't know if Turbo also has that.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

Hi MacTouch. No, I was referring to not possessing an original retail copy of the game that I could examine.

Thanks for looking, anyway. Smile

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

Toast creates ISO9660, HFS, UDF, Redbook and hybrid images as needed. The only thing that differentiates Toast images from ISO images or CDR images is the file extension and the header data. Since the header data is ISO compliant, any software attempting to read the toast images as if they were ISO9660 will succeed, but won’t use some of the extended data provided by Toast.