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Joined: 2009 Apr 22
Imaging multi session cd's

A multi session cd is one of those cd's with a data track and a cd audio track and the game won't work properly or fully without both tracks. You can tell by inserting any cd into any current computer. If you see two cd icons - one data, one audio cd, you've got a multi-session disc.

Because disk images typically are designed for single partitions it isn't easy to back up such a disk. It can be done - with a few tricks in toast - but it involves converting the pcm audio to aiff files and is a pain to configure. I've found a way to make a disk image of both partitions using a windows program - which can be written properly into a multi-session cd with toast.

Interestingly toast can write the cd from the image - but can't make a dual partition image from the cd - go figure.

Alright - first if you haven't already you'll need to start your windows emulator. Download a windows program called UltraISO (www.ezbsystems.com/ultraiso/). Because windows can't read mac cd's - it can only do a "raw" read of the disc. This will allow us to make a disk image. Note that the disk image won't be mountable - but can only be used to make a multi-session cd. .bin/.cue images (there are two files, both necessary) are multi-session compatible - so that's the type of extensions you'll see on your disc image. NOTE: ISO is not multi session compatible - don't choose this option!

1. Insert the cd in the emulator's cd/dvd drive
2. open parallels (or other win emulator), download UltraISO from website above
3. After installing, choose Make CD/DVD image from Tools menu
4. Choose CD drive, other options.
4a. I'd recommend leaving skip bad sectors off - unless you know the cd is good. Sometimes you can get bad sectors on a good cd (bad sectors placed on a disc as a copy protection scheme). If this is the case, you have to turn the option on.
5. Choose BIN (.bin/.cue) as the disc image type as this type is compatible with multi-session cd's. Please note: click on this option no matter if it asks you to switch in a pop up dialog or not - even if the item is already selected - otherwise you might get an iso file which will only contain the data partition.
6. Let it do it's thing. When it's done, you'll see two files - a .bin and a .cue file. copy both of these files to your mac. Zip them in an archive, and upload them here.

To burn, open toast (I've tried this on Toast 8 and 10), choose copy option, choose .bin/cue, and drag the bin file to the window. Choose the CD option, insert a blank disc, and wait until it's done it's thing - you should now have a multi-session cd!

If someone other than myself could test this, I'd appreciate it. Also - should this be in the guides section?

--Rob

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bertyboy's picture
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Joined: 2009 Jun 14

Big thanks for taking the time and effort to doument this.

Currently using Toast 7, it can burn BIN/CUE images too, as could Toast 5 - what I used before it. I used Toast 4 Lite before that but my memory isn't that good, so it may have done it also. Someone else may want to confirm or deny this and do the same for other Toast versions. I do remember thinking Toast 5 was the best software I'd ever bought when I started to use it, so Toast 4 may have been pants.

Further, Toast 7 can create BIN/CUE image files from a CD / DVD. I'm unsure if any version of Toast before this can do it also - I never bought Toast 6 and I don't remember Toast 5 or 4 doing it. Again, if someone has tried it, please post. In Toast 7 it's under the File menu, right under "Save As ..." that we all currently use for creating Toast disc images.

Just two more points, I remember Toast 5 being able to save the Audio partition of a mixed-mode cd - you called it multi-sassion, but it's really "mixed-mode" instead, you've made such a great effort to explain to everyone I'm not going to shoot you down on this.
Anyway, Toast 5 could save the Audio portion of the CD as a .toast image file. Can't remember exactly how I did it, Toast 7 can't do it, but I used it to successfully create a copy or two of my Age of Empires original media. I kept detailed instructions for buning the CD but not on creating the toast image of the Audio portion. If someone is still using Toast 5, please try, it's not going to cost you anything but time and some temporary disk space.

Finally, just a quick point about inserting a mixed-mde CD in your Mac. Not a guaranteed way to confirm if the disc is mixed-mode. The extra portion just may not mount in Mac OS. I usually have Toast open when I want to check a CD, it shows what format the disc is.

Just to clarify for everyone, mixed-mode doesn't have to be a Mac OS portion and an Audio portion, it can be the combination of any two discrete portions. But for us it usually is an Audio disc where the Mac OS partition makes up the first audio track.
Multi-session can be any format, where the disc is burned and subsequently another burn session is added. CD drives and their software must be multi-session aware to be able to read subsequent sessions - all are now, but back in the early days many were not. The same is true for Audio CD players, back in it's infancy many could not play tracks from subsequent sessions. A "non-issue" now as DVD-R and CD-R retail for less than £0.20, back in the day they were £1.50 for CD-R, £5 for DVD-R.

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Joined: 2009 Apr 22

Hi Bertyboy,

You are right it's officially called "mixed mode". I remember toast 4.12.. I remember toast 5 was a lot more polished looking - blue-ish if I remember correctly - or is that Toast 6? Well in any case... Versions after version 4 seemed to support a lot more.

The reason for posting the above is that it would make it simpler (hopefully) to make mixed mode cd's. I remember what a pain it was to get the toast mixed mode right (and to be honest it was a pain trying to remember how to do it each time) - extract all audio cd files (pcm audio) as aiff, set all the right toast settings... and you could never make a disk image out of it.

That is true - mixed mode could be any type of disc - ISO9660, audio cd (pcm audio), mac only cd, joilet, etc... I've even seen separate Mac and Windows partitions (referring to the game HAVOC) - so only the one you need would show up for you. Usually it's the background audio that the audio cd portion is for. I know for sure that The web pro pinball uses it as I have the cd.

I remember older versions of Mac OS 7 (7.0, 7.1) would only show the data partition - the audio cd part wouldn't mount - but the game could play the audio nonetheless. Newer versions of the cd/dvd driver supported multi-session and from that point onward, those discs show as two separate discs when mounted.

I remember I had a 4x CD-R drive. It was around 1999 and new and cool. I was so pissed when 16x media came out several years later. The luminosity of the discs had changed so much that the drive became unable to write discs rated faster than 12x media.

If you're using a emulated mac, you're set - but if you're using say an AppleCD300e for instance with a 2x read speed (if memory serves correctly), you will have trouble as the drive can't read anything much than mass manufactured cd-rom's and audio cd's. They weren't designed to read -r, +r media. So if you've got an old computer with an old cd-rom drive chances are it may not be able to read the burned cd... Sort of a catch-22. It'd be nice to see a driver program that could use two source folders and use their contents and mount a disc image using the two folders as a multi-mode disc.

Edit: Replaced 'xxx 7' with 'Mac OS 7' - IIGS User

MCP's picture
MCP
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Joined: 2010 Mar 12

Toast 5 saves the audio as .sd2f or .aiff format files in addition to a separate image of the data portion. If you want to burn a cd it can use the separate files in conjunction to make one cd. The audio files can be opened and listened to with Toast, but not mounted.

IIGS_User's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 8

I remember burning Mixed Mode CD-ROMs by burning the Data part first (not finalizing), then burning the Audio part onto the same CD-R, then finalizing.

bertyboy's picture
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Joined: 2009 Jun 14

IIGS_User, yep I believe that can work as well. But I've only ever done it in Toast in a single burn session following the Toast instructions for burning mixed-mode CDs. For Toast 5 it was a lot more convoluted to achieve the same effect and I had a detailed step-by-step which I posted in the Age of Empires game comments.

Tried again today to create a .toast image of the audio CD part of a mixed-mode CD (Age of Empires of course). No luck at all. I definitely did it in Toast v5, which allowed me to easily burn copies of the original media.

Also tried using Toast 7's "Save As Bin/Cue" to image a mixed-mode CD. No luck, it just does the Mac HFS partition.

I can try something different tomorrow.