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Killar's picture
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Joined: 2020 Dec 24
I have a Macintosh classic and need help making floppies of games from this site

I have an old Classic I restored to working condition but can't figure out how to transfer game files from my windows is to the classic. Please help.I searched the forum with no luck. Thanks in advance.

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24bit's picture
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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

If your internal 1.4MB floppy drive is still working as it should, I would recommend using the Mac emulator Basilisk II build 142 for Windows to write Mac 1.4MB floppies.
The emulator .exe is hosted here: https://surfdrive.surf.nl/files/index.php/s/yr1NJIa8aZ8J1Rb/download
Guide: http://www.emaculation.com/doku.php/basilisk_142_setup
Once the emulator is up and running and you have an internal or USB floppy drive A:
The floppy for Basilisk II is mounted by pressing Ctrl-Shift-F11.

For large files, not fitting on floppies, there are some apps to split and join files.
Stuffit 3.6 springs to mind, but there are some more.

In the long run, maybe look for a solution with the other Classics built in ports.
Floppy emu from BMOW for the floppy port. https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/
SCSI to SD or SCSI to CF adapter for the SCSI port. https://www.savagetaylor.com/2018/01/05/setting-up-your-vintage-classic-...
Null-modem via serial port. https://www.savagetaylor.com/2020/12/15/appletalk-from-windows-linux-osx...

Edit:
There were also SCSI to ethernet adapters available for Mac.
68kMLA.org has a thread about building such a thing with new hardware.
But thats for later, I suppose.

Killar's picture
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Joined: 2020 Dec 24

Ok getting there. I have completed all the steps
Up to double click "System 7.5.3 01,of19.smi" in Basilisk and I get the following error" sorry a system error occurred. System 7.5.3 01 of19.smi" bad F-line instruction. And it has a Restart button displayed. Any ideas?
This is the step that should create Sys7.5 V7.5.3. CD Inst on my Basilisk desktop.

24bit's picture
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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

Yes, thats a common error, though I never did run into it myself.
I did upload a bootable System 7.5.3 disk some time ago, just try with that: macintoshgarden.org/apps/macos-753-emulators
First DL should be the one for you. Too bad I forgot adding Stuffit and other tidbits.

So here are some files you might find useful: https://www.magentacloud.de/lnk/P0Csi3x4
Expand and add the .img to the Basilisk II GUI. Please note, that you may need to select "all files" to see the .img instead of .hfv only.

Killar's picture
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Joined: 2020 Dec 24

Thanks for the help. I now have Basilisk running on my Windows machine.\
I was able to get Stuffit on the emulator running. Now - I have a .sit file I wish to expand and run but I am not sure where I need to put the .sit file so I can expand it from Stuffit running in the emulator? Any help with this?

24bit's picture
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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

All Mac files including .SIT must be on a (emulated) Mac drive to stay undamaged.
Do not pull the files in question to the Mac desktop, as they will remain on the Windows volumes technically.
As the 7.5.3 boot volume is rather small, best use a bigger "scratch" volume to process things.
You may create a e.g. 2GB volume yourself or pick something here: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/disk-images-emulators
The smallest 3GB volume should be enough for now.
Please note that new volumes need to be initialised by the OS.
Usually you will get a requester asking to to just that after adding a blank volume.

If you wish, you may copy over the System folder to the larger volume or (better) have a clean install from the included floppy images on the 7.5.3 volume.

I was very fond of Disk Dup for writing floppies, but Disk Copy should do just the same.
Do you have a hard disk inside the Classic?

Killar's picture
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Joined: 2020 Dec 24

Thanks

I downloaded the 3GB volume, added it via Basilisk GUI and it now shows on my Basilisk Emulator. On my Classic I have a 40 MB hard drive.
My goal is to download .sit apps/games from this site and write them to a Floppy that I can then run on my Classic. I managed to get a copy of Disk Copy 6 running in the emulator as well. So now I have downloaded a game called 3D Brick Bash - I have the .sit file on my windows hard drive.
My trials:
Open Basilisk GUI and add the .sit file
I added the Volume 3dbrickbash.sit to the list
I press Start and the emulator launches.
What are the next steps to
Expand the .sit
Install the game on the emu
Launch and play the game?
Thanks for the help on this I appreciate your time

IIGS_User's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 8

I added the Volume 3dbrickbash.sit to the list

This is not a disk image file. *.sit ones are the Mac equivalent of *.zip files.

You need to put the *.sit files onto the emulated Mac disk volumes before extracting them using StuffIt Expander 5.5.

24bit's picture
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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

Which one? First DL?
I´ll just have a look.

For the first DL, expand the file with Stuffit on your 3GB virtual disk.
Mount a 1.4MB floppy (Ctrl-Shift-F11)
Format the floppy as Macintosh disk.
Drag the expanded folder 3d Brick Bash! 1.4 onto the floppy.

Thats all. Your Classic should read the floppy, if the floppy drive is all right.

mac-tom's picture
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Joined: 2021 Jan 9

I have a similar problem as Killar. I have a Macintosh Plus. But it does not have a SuperDrive (as I understand).

What hardware do I need to make a transfer from PC to Macintosh? Do I need a special floppy drive (USB) on the PC or is a normal USB drive enough?

24bit's picture
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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

No PC drive available can write Mac 800k floppies sadly.
Another vintage Mac with Sony floppy drive will be needed to write Mac 800k floppies.

BMOW has Floppy Emu for sale, maybe the best solution for a Mac Plus.
An adapter SCSI to SD may be worth a thought too.

mac-tom's picture
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Joined: 2021 Jan 9

Thanks. The BMOW Floppy EMU looks great. I will order one.

IIGS_User's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 8

I can second this, it's worth the price.
Just copy *.img files onto the SD card and use it in the emu.

mac-tom's picture
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Joined: 2021 Jan 9

In the meantime I got the BMOW Floppy EMU. An incredible tool and a very quick delivery (to Germany). After the download of the firmware (appleII is preinstalled) the emu runs perfectly! See https://youtu.be/Gqpn9ugO1_U for the firm update.

Furthermore there is a lot of software available on the sd card (Games, Tools and complete OS versions). 410MB.

Next weekend I will play defender of the crown again after serveral years. Let's see if it so nice as I remember ,-)

24bit's picture
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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

Thanks for reporting back, mac-tom.
May I ask what you did pay in total and how you managed custom clearance?
Import VAT will be the usual 19% but how much did the custom agent charge you?

mac-tom's picture
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Joined: 2021 Jan 9

BMOW Floppy Emu Deluxe Bundle includes:

Floppy Emu Model C
Frosted Ice Acrylic Case (requires assembly)
Vintage Apple Software Collection SD Card
Micro SD to Full-Size SD Adapter
DB-19 Disk Extension Cable
Everything for $139 SALE! $119

plus app $15 for shipping and packaging.

Custom for Germany was free, because of it was under 150EUR (as I understood).

Everything very easy and very quick. Thanks to BMOW.

24bit's picture
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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

Great bargain! Thanks for sharing the details.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

The biggest problem with the Mac Plus and floppy disk exchanging is that it has an 800k DD floppy disk drive and not a 1.44MB floppy disk drive. A Mac Plus does not have USB. Windows PC's cannot read/write Macintosh 800k floppy disk media. So there are technical obstacles. A Mac Plus didn't have an internal HD either. Have you got an HD of some kind for it?

You may need to get a USB floppy drive, but you'll need to settle on some work-arounds. What Mac OS does it run?

mac-tom's picture
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Joined: 2021 Jan 9

I bought the Macintosh Plus with a 20mb HD external. Runs great after all these years. Now the desire arose to try out more small software.

mac-tom's picture
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Joined: 2021 Jan 9

D1-7.1, I boot from the harddisk.

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

If you've got an HD SC 20, you have a number of options: one is to get a SCSI2SD and chain it on the end and copy stuff over via SD card; another is to get a SCSI card for your PC and get a wide SCSI to regular SCSI adapter so you can plug the 20MB drive directly into the PC and load it in Basilisk II build 142.

Something I did years ago with my HD SC 20 was to replace the Quantum 20MB drive with a 520MB drive. I'm not sure where you'd find such a thing these days though; easier to just go with the SCSI2SD and use 8GB SD cards.

24bit's picture
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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

Are you booting the Mac Plus from the HD-20 then? Which System software?
I think it was possible to read DOS 720k floppies in System 6 with AccessPC:
https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/accesspc-20

If you have an old PC around that can run Windows 2000 or lower, it should be doable to format 720k floppies and write Mac files onto them with the help of Basilisk II Build 142 for Windows.
Not recommended, but possible: Most HD floppies could be formatted 720k with a piece of tape over the "HD hole".

Maybe an Apple CD-300 for the SCSI port would be an option.
The Plus had a somewhat non standard SCSI implementation IIRC.

Troyd's picture
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Joined: 2014 Nov 14

There are two separate things going on here. One is the ability to read PC 720K diskettes formatted with FAT12 and the other is the ability to read/write to Mac 800k diskettes formatted with HFS. The two do not mix well. If you put Mac binaries or even data files onto FAT12 formatted 720k diskettes, they need to be compressed in BinHex format otherwise, you lose the crucial resource fork which allows you to decompress the file back on the Mac. Even then, your Mac might not recognise the BinHex file for what it is.

.SIT files do not survive the transition onto FAT12, so make sure you BinHex after Stuffing.

Jatoba's picture
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Joined: 2018 Apr 16

.SIT files do not survive the transition onto FAT12, so make sure you BinHex after Stuffing.

.sit files don't need resource forks to operate, though, and thus binhex would achieve nothing for compressed files, AFAIK. Or am I missing something?

Duality's picture
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Joined: 2014 Mar 1

Be careful about that assumption. Only StuffIt 5 .sit files don't need resource forks. Earlier versions still do.

In some cases one might want to make a StuffIt 3/4 file so that they can decompress it on a 68000 machine. They'll need to MacBinary II or BinHex that.

There used to be a good MacTech article that broke down the differences between iterations of the StuffIt archive over time. In the meantime, there's a capsule summary in this not-as-great Mac Observer article under the "Chronology Of StuffIt" header.

Jatoba's picture
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That's an interesting capsule summary, thanks for sharing. If you do locate the MacTech article as well, I'll be looking forward to it.

With that said, I can say that, despite everything, not all versions before 5 need the resource fork, such as 1.5.1, the most universal of all StuffIt versions (system & hardware-wise). I know this first-hand because I wanted Macintosh demoscene demos to be as widely-accessible as possible when I collected them here, and did a lot of testing on it. The two archives there are in 1.5.1 format, and successfully extract with 1.5.1, 4.0.1 and 7.0.3. (Not sure about 5.5.1 or 6.0, though.)

Admittedly, though, UnStuffIt 1.5.1 needs to know the type/creator codes before it accepts the file. Then the question becomes whether decoding (needs more disk space, is slower) + decompressing is more or less convenient or preferred than adjusting type/creator (extra manual labor) + decompressing. The latter is automatic with later StuffIt versions and other apps, but I'm not sure what type/creator tools are out there, and how convenient they are, for the likes of System 5 and earlier.

Nonetheless, I'll be wary about it with versions between 1.5.1 and 5, thanks for the warning. Not that I have exhausted the possibilities, but between those versions, I have yet to come across a .sit archive that won't work without the resource fork. Perhaps archives that use a password or other non-default configuration? If there is indeed a "true" dependency on resource fork for a specific StuffIt version, that could be very useful to pinpoint and reproduce, so that I, myself, don't screw up when attempting to preserve a specific archive someday...

Duality's picture
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I still can't quite find it from the MacTech preserve. It's possible that I was thinking of the less-good Mac Observer source in the first place. See reply to MTT below for snark.

I did find a quip from a Metrowerks hosted column, From the Factory Floor (15.01), which presents a marketing-friendly though not very detailed list of changes in the StuffIt 5 file format:

  • New StuffIt technology provides a 20% compression improvement and gives two compression methods, "Fast" or "Maximum". Fast is roughly equivalent to the old StuffIt algorithm, except that it's about 20% faster. Maximum is brand new, and compresses files an average of 20% smaller than the old algorithm
  • Multi-Lingual - All strings are stored in Unicode [NOTE: They don't specify which Unicode, so since this is 1999, I assume some flavor of the flawed UTF-16], and file names can now be of any length
  • Updated transparent cross-platform file format interchange, so it is now more multi-platform. All OS file coding information is saved/translated/restored correctly, regardless of source or target platform, (Mac, Windows, Unix). A type/creator extension table also maps file types between platforms. StuffIt Deluxe now includes full support of HFS+ on the Mac. The create and modification dates are all translated correctly and Mac file comments are now saved and restored.
  • No more archive file size or number limits

It's possible that the "cross platform file format interchange" support only amounted to an app-side table of type infos mapped to extensions, which doesn't really affect the file format at all.

Likely that the only cross platform change made to the file format itself was that all file names are internally stored in a form of Unicode instead of MacRoman or Windows-1252.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Actually, all .sit files from version 1.x up contain no resource forks and are perfectly safe for traveling over networks and DOS or other formatted media. You only need to create a .sit archive using an early version of StuffIt and attempt to open the .sit in ResEdit to know this is true. ResEdit will complain that there is no resource fork and asks if you would like to create one. Wink

The only issue with moving .sit files over networks, etc, and this won't affect the OP, as he is running 7.1, is that there is no drag and drop in Systems 6 and earlier and .sit files moved across networks etc have their "Creator Type" and "File Type" removed from the file in the process. System 6 and earlier depends on a file's intact "Creator Type" and "File Type" to know how to treat them. The "Creator Type" and "File Type" of classic StuffIt ".sit" files are not stored in the resource fork, but in the catalog tree of the HFS/HFS+ disk that the file is created on or moved to by the Finder, they, like the resource fork of a Mac file get lost in travelling over non-Mac media. HandOff II comes to the rescue in those SSW6 situations.

With System 7 and later there is no such issue, as dragging a generic-icon'd .sit file onto StuffIt Expander, it will launch, read the header of a file's data fork and then know what to do with it. It doesn't care about resource forks as it's own files don't have them.

The biggest issue I can see, for mac-tom and his Macintosh Plus, is that so much of online .sit archives (raw or inside .bin or .hqx wrappers) have been archived using StuffIt version 5.5 or later, and this version of StuffIt and later is incompatible with 68000 CPU's such as mac-tom's Mac Plus. StuffIt 5.x requires an '020 CPU at least, likely '030 for full compatibility, and files created in this and later versions cannot be extracted using earlier versions of StuffIt.

In which case, he may need to set up a Basilisk II or SheepShaver on his host PC to extract and repackage those incompatible files into something more suitable that he can take to and use on his Plus.

Duality's picture
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Joined: 2014 Mar 1

Interesting! It would not surprise me that Mac Observer was wrong. They can be like a less trustworthy TidBITS. Smile

I do remember that StuffIt 5 SIT files did something to allow for better compatibility in non-HFS/MFS environments, though there's too many StuffIt press releases in MacTech to know for sure what that was vs developer-facing docs. Statements like "We are excited that StuffIt’s new format dramatically increases the ease of cross-platform information exchange" don't really help.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Statements like "We are excited that StuffIt’s new format dramatically...

I think what they're saying there, is "We've re-written the code from scratch and you'll need to buy the product all over again if you hope to create our new StuffIt formatted files". Wink

MikeTomTom's picture
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I think it was possible to read DOS 720k floppies in System 6 with AccessPC:

I recommend using DOS Mounter 95 instead of Access PC, as DM 95 handles long file names coming in off DOS formatted media. No mean feat in System 6, I kid you not Wink

mac-tom boots into System 7.1 it seems, but I would still use DOS Mounter 95 even over Apples PC Exchange, as that didn't get long file name support until version 2.1 (System 7.5.5 - 7.6 ?) . It's file type mapping seems more robust too.

He wouldn't need Basilisk II to copy (.sit, .bin, .hqx.) archives to a DOS formatted 720k DD floppy disk. But he may need Basilisk II or Sheepshaver to convert StuffIt version 5 and later archives to something compatible with a 68000 CPU, e.g.; StuffIt 4.x or earlier, ".sit" formats. Also to split archives too large to fit onto a single 720k disk.