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dr.zeissler's picture
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Joined: 2016 Sep 4
Gaming on 10.3.9 with G4 Mac-Mini

Hi, i really like 10.3.9 (Panther). It's the macos the early g4-minis came with. I don't see any advantage using 10.4 Tiger on these machines. But some software/ports require 10.4 because they were build with sources from later SDL versions or have other dependencies I currtently don't know. So I am collecting the *older* versions that perhaps do run on 10.3.9 and do not require 10.4.

Currently these do not work, due to 10.4 dependencies:

- DxRebirth (Decent1-2 remake)
- ECWolf (Wolfenstein for OSX with enhancements)
- eduke32 (DukeNukem for OSX with enhancements)
- Rott (rise of the triad osx-version)

Perhaps somebody has collected the binaries that I did not found yet.

Greetings
Doc

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Ataru29's picture
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Joined: 2018 Apr 10

I second that; also version compatible with 10.2 would be welcome!

Jatoba's picture
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Joined: 2018 Apr 16

I forgot their names, but over at the PPC MacRumors forums, there were threads dedicated to compiling info and download links for every final version of every program made, one thread per major Mac OS X release (Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger and Leopard).

I don't know if there was anything on those titles you specified, but it may be a place to look at and search.

By the way, out of curiosity, is there any particular reason you favor Panther over Tiger? I got 3 late Mac mini G4s (which are also compatible with Panther if you really want them to have it) as well, which I treasure as my favorite Mac model and machine ever created, so I'm curious to know.

dr.zeissler's picture
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Tiger itself has features that a g4-mini does not support e.g. core-image etc. Tiger supports later SDL Versions but requires more RAM and more CPU usage. Therefore I do not have so much benefit from Tiger. In short; most Games that require Tiger require more CPU, more VRAM a G4 mini can offer.

Source-Ports are another thing, mostly old games with newer binaries and perhaps support for advanced features like high-res textures, highres-models etc.

Tiger is a remarkable border in macos, like 10.6.8 too.

I am a "pre" tiger user and I love that.

Jatoba's picture
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Joined: 2018 Apr 16

I see, though since additions don't detract from Tiger, the lack of core-image support etc. applies equally to Panther, as well. I also have never been unable to run something in Tiger due to lack of RAM, CPU usage or VRAM that I wouldn't have on Panther, since the two systems don't leave that different a footprint.

Nearly all games that require Tiger, from my experience, have run just fine on the mini, though it should be noted mine are the 1.5 GHz model, which also comes with twice the VRAM (64MB instead of 32MB). So maybe that could potentially be a point for the other minis. But since Tiger runs fine with no practical difference what Panther runs fine, I still don't see this as a point to Panther's defense, personally, even for the more modest minis.

I, too, am a fan of pre-Tiger flavors (and I have near-zero interest for anything Intel Mac, including 10.6.8 Snow Leopard), so much that neither Tiger nor Leopard are my go-to systems on the minis: It is Mac OS 9.2.2, which, on top of having crazy software compatibility and system responsiveness, it has the lowest RAM, CPU usage & VRAM requirements, and all mini models have ATI GPUs compatible with hardware acceleration under it, using the latest 2005 drivers. Smile
(In case I haven't mentioned it to you yet in some other post, you can download Mac OS 9.2.2 for the G4 minis from the MacOS9Lives forums.)

dr.zeissler's picture
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Joined: 2016 Sep 4

Have you ever looked at the old doomsday port for panther and installed the addons for the games?
You will not believe what you get. crystal clear textures that are smooth in 1024x768 and look so damn good, better as cod4 btw. Musik-Addon does not work as vsync (that's the only bad thing on that engine version).

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

I much prefer and sometime still play Doom Legacy v1.32b1 for OS X 10.1 to 10.6.8 (under Rosetta). Not the versions that came after this one (such as the OS X versions we have here at the MG). This port has nice OpenGL shading and can also play the original Doom sound files and any addon. Mac OS X 10.3.9 is no barrier for this one.

dr.zeissler's picture
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Joined: 2016 Sep 4

Have not tested this "doomlegacy" out, but I am more in highres-textures. fuhquake is looking and performing fantastic with panther and the right texturepack.

btw. the 1,5Ghz mini cannot use panther. It comes with tiger. Tiger breaks also some demoscene and games stuff. But you are right you get more new compatible stuff than it breaks old things.

Marathon 1-3 does work now with highres-textures in 10.3.9 but I can't get it to the quality the standalones for tiger and up are offering. Even if I copy the files out of the app and combine them with the 10.3.9 ready aleph-one. It's better then without the packs, but by far not that good as these ones. curious? https://alephone.lhowon.org

Jatoba's picture
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Joined: 2018 Apr 16

btw. the 1,5Ghz mini cannot use panther. It comes with tiger. Tiger breaks also some demoscene and games stuff.

Interesting to hear about the demoscene stuff, that's helpful for me to know when I get into Mac OS X demoscene. As for games, do you know of any examples? I'd like to keep a tab on everything that Tiger/Leopard can't run, but that Panther (and earlier) can.

Regarding installing Panther on the later G4 minis, it is indeed not very known, but it is possible. The "Server" version can be installed as is, but the regular version requires a change to a single text character in the install DVD to spoof the target G4 mini revision, and that's it. Alternately, it's possible to also simply spoof the machine ID itself, or to simply install Panther with another Mac's help, and, for example, put the Panther disk drive into the mini afterwards.

dr.zeissler's picture
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Joined: 2016 Sep 4

https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=12028 Does not start on 10.4.2 or 10.4.11, but runs on 10.3.9

Another thing:
Doomsday Engine: Beta 6.8 runs on 10.4.x but is SLOOOWWWWW, older beta Version runs just fine on 10.3.9, if I am starting this older faster on on 10.4 I get lots of bug, and direct-quit if choosing mouse controle.

Perhaps I need much more testing on tiger and it's compatibility to software. I did LOT's of testing with 10.3.9 and so I currently think it would perhaps be easier to patch/build the missing ports for 10.3.9 if possible then doing intensive testing from ground up for 10.4.x ...hmm

dr.zeissler's picture
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Joined: 2016 Sep 4

btw: last backup macscene https://web.archive.org/web/20130117052000/http://mac.scene.org/
But mostly usesless.

dr.zeissler's picture
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Doomsday Engine: Sound-Addon and vsync was not fixed on both (10.3/10.4) so no advantage for Tiger.

dr.zeissler's picture
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Joined: 2016 Sep 4

Dxrebirth 1+2 does work in 10.4 in 10.3.9 not. No binaries and no sources for 10.3 so Tiger wins in this one. Same with Rott, Binaries only work with Tiger not with Panther.

https://forum.dxx-rebirth.com/showthread.php?tid=754

dr.zeissler's picture
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Joined: 2016 Sep 4

Next testing eduke32. Only thing are 10.4 binaries, no 10.3.x and before.
https://web.archive.org/web/20120604022030/http://www.spam-filter.de/osx...

Jatoba's picture
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Joined: 2018 Apr 16

I think it may be a bit easier to focus/report on Panther applications that Tiger can't run, because else we know the list will be quite "endless"...

But thanks, I do appreciate these being reported so far.

dr.zeissler's picture
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https://web.archive.org/web/20170406173811/https://wiki.eduke32.com/wiki...

It should be possible to compile eduke32 for osx ppc SDL 1.2 10.3.9

dr.zeissler's picture
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Joined: 2016 Sep 4

Here are the old macports: https://svn.macports.org/repository/macports/downloads/
Latest build for Panther 1.7.1

OpenSourceMac's picture
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Joined: 2019 Jan 21

The Tomb Raider games ran nice under Classic in Panther. When it went to Tiger, they cut OpenGL/Rave after panther. About the only part that doesn't work well in Panther Classic is prerendered video.

dr.zeissler's picture
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Joined: 2016 Sep 4

I FOUND THE OLD Titles for Descent 1/2 OS9/OSX but the files are not downloadable:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090402161959/http://www.dxx-rebirth.com/?D...

dr.zeissler's picture
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Where are they https://web.archive.org/web/20110606031139/http://sourceforge.net/projec...

NucAr's picture
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Joined: 2012 Aug 17

I found the source code of the version of DXX-Rebirth you're looking for:

http://zantor64.fs2downloads.com/descent_archive/

I've figured out a way to build D1X successfully, but sound effects don't work. The problem could be the version of SDL I'm using. I'm going to mess with it some more over the next week or so. If I can't get it to fully work, I'll post how I built it so that, hopefully, someone can take it from there.

dr.zeissler's picture
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Joined: 2016 Sep 4

Thx, only the win-binaries and the source-code, but not the osx-binaries.
I read somewhere that the source-code was patched in order to build
working OS9 and OSX pre 10.4 binaries.