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Fortuna Wave's picture
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Joined: 2009 May 23
Do not allow your Original CD/Floppy disk images to be modified before uploading

Since I am a Macintosh CD and floppy image collector, some of the disk images in this web site are not in original condition and thus have been modified because of these effects:

  • Desktop DB and Desktop DF files do not match with the original CD/floppy
  • Time & Date stamps do not match with the original CD/floppy
  • .Trashes folder exists (hidden or not)
  • .DS_Store file exists (hidden or not)
  • Any other Mac OS X indices (hidden or not) exist
  • File structure or sort order do not match the original CD/floppy

These problems can be caused by mounting the disk image without first locking it, or using and burning a modified CD image. This means when I see the Get Info option from the CD image or floppy image, it's still modified and the file structure from the CD image or floppy image is mismatch from the original CD-ROM or original floppies.

In order to upload untouched Macintosh disk images:

  • Make sure the disc images are original, clean, untouched and not modified versions of the original CD-ROMs and floppies, such as applications and games.
  • Make sure you created the disc image from the compatible, suitable CD burner such as Toast (CD image) from the CD-ROM and Disc Copy (Uncompressed .img file) from the floppies
  • To check the contents on the newly created CD image, make sure the CD image file is locked first, the file structure on the CD image must be matched from the original CD, and the host OS must be Mac OS 7.x-9.x to mount.
  • Please do not create the CD image (circa 1987-1997) with the HFS+ filesystem, it will not work especially for Mac OS 7.x users.
  • Use the Virtual CD/DVD Utility image mounter in this site. Click Get Info on the File Menu on the CD image that mounted and check the modified timestamp match from the original CD-ROM than the newly modified date (for example 2010 or 2011). If the timestamps is the same as the original, re-create the CD image again with the suitable CD burner or make sure the CD image is not read and write.

  • Edit: Changed 'xxx 7' to 'Mac OS 7' - IIGS User

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IIGS_User's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 8

I will write-protect my .cdr images now. Smile

iig's picture
iig
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Joined: 2009 Jul 16

What if it is modified? (sorry if thats a dumb question Smile ) Will it not mount?

pagan's picture
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Joined: 2009 May 8

Besides the annoyance of files being spammed over archived images of original CD's, and the incorrect dates, it is also a case of integrity. To preserve software you want it to be an untouched exact copy. If it contains files that do not belong, and has incorrect dates, then how do you know nothing else is changed? Or if it contains viruses, or malicious code? Or if some file is missing?

Even more importantly, it does cause problems - especially if you burn one of those modified images to CD to use on a real mac. Worst case scenario is that the burned CD cannot mount on your classic mac due to the corrupt file structure.

That has happened to me a couple of times, when I've used a downloaded image to make a CD. In some cases the images were screwed up so badly the only way to burn a CD readable on a 68k mac was to first burn a CD to get it from the OSX computer to PPC computer (which was compatible enough to mount it) and from there restore the file structure and burn *another* CD that the 68k computer was able to mount.

bertyboy's picture
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Joined: 2009 Jun 14

As pagan says, and I'll keep it simple - the site is all about the preservation of original Macintosh software. The Holy Grail of that is unmodified images of the original install media. It's what we should all be trying to achieve.

And I know sometimes this gets in the way of those who just want to download lots of stuff for free (usually everything) and play some of it. That's when we make a few compromises if we really must, ie. stripping out game demos from a CD image to cut the file size down to something easy to use. I've done it before for a few titles and I've had to go back and upload the full un-modified CD image.

Again, it might sound like we're making a big deal out of it, but that holy grail makes more than a few members here trawl eBay and other sites at least twice a week looking for new suitable titles, parting with our own money to make the original media available to all - rather than some warez version that was acquired from thepiratebay or similar that is missing the music, or video clips, or contains viruses.

Thundersock's picture
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Joined: 2010 May 20

Good point all, I think I left the audio discs out of some of the stuff I uploaded. I'll check.

MadMac's picture
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Joined: 2010 Mar 20

ok ok dont kill me... everthing is a learning experience... ooops! ...I create the .cdr image from the Disk Utility of MacOS X, i will make a new one from the 9 and re-upload it. Working on it...

bertyboy's picture
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Joined: 2009 Jun 14

I don't think we're jumping down your throat, just trying to explain why it is so important to many of us. I do my best to keep the disc images original, but just sometimes it has to be modified.

OSX Disk Utility .cdr images are better than nothing, and they should have the correct modification timestamp, but this can be modified if you mount the .cdr disc image without locking it first. OS9 Disk Copy disc images are exactly the same, they should b locked before mounting. The biggest problem here seems to be that OSX Disk Utility and OS9 Disk Copy (from memory) automatically mount the disc image as soon as it's created, by default anyway, before you have a chance to lock it. We all have to remember to turn that option off in the create / save dialog box.

Toast, either OSX or OS9 versions are first rate at creating usable disc images that no-one should complain about. Again, lock them before mouning them.

MadMac's picture
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Joined: 2010 Mar 20

Bertyboy, that s it. I made a locked .img file under the 9.2.2. mounted and checked. If somebody finds something out of place... well, tough luck! Im wearing an anti-flame suit by now... Smile
Timestamps are checked, checksum, everything.
Toast 5.1 toast image give me the same problems as disk utility with the timestamps, files and folders.
In about 3 hours, links would be ready, people.

iig's picture
iig
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Joined: 2009 Jul 16

Thanks for explaining Smile .

IIGS_User's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 8

Toast, either OSX or OS9 versions are first rate at creating usable disc images that no-one should complain about. Again, lock them before mouning them.

Plus, Toast preserves the PC partition of a CD-ROM, if available.

MCP's picture
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Joined: 2010 Mar 12

It just depends on what you intend to do with the disc image. Personally I think it's a waste in this day and age of large memory and huge hard drives to burn cd's unless you absolutely must in order to get something to work. And some disc images containing old compact mac software won't work with Mini vMac unless altered from their original state. So there's reasons for going in either direction. I say preserve the disc as best you can--until preservation gets in the way of using it!

Euryale's picture
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Joined: 2009 Jul 22

Is it Ok if I burn a CD image using Alcohol 120% or NERO?
That´s how I make my back-ups, even the Hybrid CD´s (music and data) result just like the originals
and work fine.

bertyboy's picture
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Joined: 2009 Jun 14

Absolutely.

Fortuna Wave's picture
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Joined: 2009 May 23

In the MCP's mediafire archive, I found the Developer CD SSW 04-93 download link. Unfortunately, the dates are incorrect and the CD volume is modified by April 2010, but everything on the CD image is untouched. Can you please re-upload with the proper, correct date?

Also, I've checked the AppleCDsCatalog DiskTracker file on the MCP's mediafire archive, and all of the Apple CD images in the catalog are all CD volume have incorrect dates (like modified in 2010 or 2009) (and some of them have incorrect file structure), but only MacAdvocate CD is untouched. Can you please re-upload all of the Apple CDs to your archive with the all CDs are untouched?

MCP's picture
MCP
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Joined: 2010 Mar 12

Absolutely not. If the dates in my archives are changed, it means that the images were changed slightly to work easily with Mini vMac. Nothing else about the discs were altered. And I will not contribute to whatever kind of obsessive compulsive mania of yours it is that drives you to always be begging for redundant software.

Fortuna Wave's picture
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Joined: 2009 May 23

Sorry MCP.

Fortuna Wave's picture
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Joined: 2009 May 23

Here is the results of another subspect:
- It won't readable in Mac OS 7.x to 8.0.
- It uses the Mac OS Extended format and the Joilet format, not Mac OS Standard.
- The Desktop DB file has been modified.

To the uploader (Vitoarc), please replace the CD image with the new, untouched and un-modified PowerMacintosh CD image. Make sure you are using Apple Disk Copy to create CD images as read-only.

Edit: Changed 'xxx 7' to 'Mac OS 7' - IIGS User

Fortuna Wave's picture
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Joined: 2009 May 23

Updated this page for more better meaning.

But not also this site, some areas also have the CD images modified such as Mitrokhin's Pandora Wired Server.

Fortuna Wave's picture
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Joined: 2009 May 23

Remember, always you must check this page to get a proper information how to create CD images 100% untouched without modifying them.

T-1000's picture
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Joined: 2011 Sep 15

Thanks for making me aware of this.
I had no idea you could damage the disk images in this way. I will be careful and follow the instructions here from now on.
However I will not remake my first few uploads, at least not for now as I don't think there have been any structural damage, maybe just some modified change dates.

Fortuna Wave's picture
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Joined: 2009 May 23

Can you please stick this topic? It contains the important guidelines for creating CD images that the modifications are untouched.

IIGS_User's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 8

Sticky now. Thanks for notification.

Fortuna Wave's picture
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Joined: 2009 May 23

Now this is also affects floppy images that is modified from the original floppy set.

256mbps's picture
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Joined: 2016 Feb 11

I agree with you, Fortuna Wave. I like 1:1 rips identical to how they were straight from the factory (unless they need a crack or something to even work). I hope the rest of the site gets cleaned up to meet these standards.

xyzzy's picture
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Joined: 2018 Feb 9

I've been doing ready only uncompressed .img's using diskcopy6 6.3.3, just wondering whether shrink wrap would be better since you can create self mounting images that dont require software? but diskcopy comes with the mac os anyway is that right? so its not an issue? Ive also been wondering because of the task im undertaking below, but also have a debate as to a what point switch to .dmg format once the cover CD's I'm imaging only contain os X based software? the machine im running is mainly an OS 9 machine though it does have 10.4.11 for some uses but remains in 9.2.2 on a daily basis. there are better machines to run OS X on since this is the last OS 9 native booters.

I have some of the missing macworld Cover Cd's which I'm currently imaging into my MDD in .img format, seems most people have .sit-ted these files? are they .img then compressed as sit format? im setting the .img to be uncompressed read only as I dont like to long term archive into encrypted or compressed formats for real long term storage, if files ever get corrupted data recovery is far worse an issue imo. My coverdiscs span both OS9 and OSX era 68k to powerpc era. 1995 upto DEC 2005, this will also reveal allot of other software im sure not yet in the Garden, im probably going to disktracker this .img library in total as a single disktracker cover disc library file and upload that first - so the disk contents are searchable, once I've imaged them.

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

Personally, I preferred ShrinkWrap format to NDIF; it was easier to create from scratch. But NDIF images can be saved as SMIs too -- after all, that's what Apple did. But yes; since you're going to have Disk Copy 4 or 6 with a Classic Mac, an NDIF image is more than enough. The problem with NDIF images is that they store data in both the data and resource fork, so it's really easy to kill an image by copying it to a drive that doesn't support forks. You need to compress or flatten the image before you let it leave HFS land. DMG-style images are flat-file, so can be stored anywhere safely, but can't be read inside Classic.

For CDs, I'd traditionally image (and mount) with Toast; Disk Utility's CDR format is essentially the same with some differences in the header layout.

In any case, use Toast on CDs in a Classic OS, use Disk Utility's CDR option on OS X. read/write uncompressed DMG is great for long-term archival, but you're going to need to write it back to something else for the data to be readable on a Classic OS. NDIF is horrible for long-term archival, but it's what we're stuck with a bunch of images being stored as already.