This page is a wiki. Please login or create an account to begin editing.


19 posts / 0 new
Last post
Bolkonskij's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Aug 3
Cornica about to make a comeback - opinions, please!

Hey everyone,

so you long-timers may remember Nicolas Bahamondes attempt to create a plattform for MacOS users to stream videos online back in 2012. Those of you who don't remember Cornica or simply weren't here - check out this old thread.

I was a big fan of it. Unfortunately due to various reasons it would cease to exist too soon. Ever since I had the idea of bringing it back as sort of an archive of Quicktime movies. I talked to Nicolas who thankfully approved of the idea and gave me the green light to use the name.

What exactly will it be?

I've created a HTML prototype to "playtest" the thing. The page has been coded so that it will display fine with Netscape 4.x, as I want even first-gen PowerPC users with System 7.6 to be able to download videos Smile

Currently the page consists of a handful of Quicktime videos I had on my HDDs or found here on the Garden. I've also converted some great YouTube videos. (still working on enhancing that process) The prototype doesn't allow for user submits, but I want to enable ya'll being able to send in videos. (though it will require moderation)

I do not want a second YouTube. (which is why this is no Youtube proxy) I do want Cornica to be a Quicktime archive

  • with hand-picked video content that celebrates the 80s, 90s and early 00's, our Macs and lifestyle.
  • with no influencers, ads, fake news, political stuff or something
  • that is a fun place to hang out with your old Mac. (ok, emulated systems too)
  • that makes people dust off their old Macs and use them again, because they are still good for something, even if "only" for entertainment.

or simply put - the general idea is to make this a place for you and your old Mac to have fun!

Check out the current => work-in-progress prototype.

The videos are hosted on the Mac Garden infrastructure, so they won't likely just disappear overnight. Big thanks to @fogwraith for his support!

What I am most interested in is whether or not you would use Cornica? Any feature you'd love to see?

Thanks for any feedback, appreciate it!

Comments

Nicolas Bahamondes's picture
Joined: 2011 Jun 16

Just in case, I vouch for him. I endorsed him and gave all what I had stored (even redesigned the logo) for his project.
I wish you the best luck for the revival of Cornica Smile Thanks for believing on my first try.

m68k's picture
Offline
Joined: 2016 Dec 30

Please consider the planet, think of the children and most importantly - don't forget 68k!
We were here before PPC came along - and deserve some browsing, too.

m68k's picture
Offline
Joined: 2016 Dec 30

sucking, sucking, sucking ... I've got sooo much disk space yet to fill
Thx for helping me with that task. Laughing out loud

m68k's picture
Offline
Joined: 2016 Dec 30

One of the movie files (computerchronicles-mac.mov) has a soundtrack that appears to be out of sync with the video track.

capt_chuckl3s's picture
Offline
Joined: 2019 Sep 17

It runs very smoothly in TenFourFox on my iBook G4. I'd break out the PowerMac G4, but I need to get it set up to where it can get on my wifi network.

Bolkonskij's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Aug 3

@Nicolas - thank you for your support. It greatly matters to me, after all, Cornica was your brain-child Smile

@m68k - thanks, I'll check that video and reupload a working copy! Don't worry, there is more content to come to fill up all your precious hard disk space Wink

Actually I have no idea if it works on a higher-end 68k machine as I have no means of testing. Theoretically it could work on a e.g. Quadra with Quicktime 4. I've successfully tested it on my 6100/66 and Quicktime 4. If anyone with 68k gear would volunteer to check I'd really appreciate it! Smile

@capt_chuckl3s - thanks for testing and taking the time to write! A G4 should be absolutely fine, you're already toward the higher-end Smile I'd personally draw the line somewhere between a 601 and 604 PPC chip. That is - streaming in the browser takes a more powerful Mac than downloading and playing the file locally. But as I wrote above, it might work on a 040 Mac too.

I'm wondering right now if I should keep the design or exchange it for a more retro classic late 90s page design. Also to improve rendering times on older machines. Hmm... got to think about it.

m68k's picture
Offline
Joined: 2016 Dec 30

Don't ask me about theming your website, as I am hoppelessly prejudiced towards Platinum looks - a taste I am sure is not to everybody's liking Wink

As far as HTML coding is concerned, pleae try (that's all I am asking) to keep it compatible with NS-Navigator 3.0.1 or iCab 2.9.9 (the best browsers available for 68k Macs).

cbone's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011 Sep 17

Simply a spectacular comeback website, Bolkonskij Smile we will most gladly beta test your online rebirth of cornica, from Nick's original work!

The key for video compatibility digestible to 68k macs is to ensure that videos are encoded with the cinepak codec. Sorenson-encoded videos will play perfectly on all ppc macs. Sorenson encodes are much smaller than cinepak, but they require more processing power, so apple only made them playable on ppc macs.

Since some of your uploads are cinepak and others are sorenson, they could have a 68k tag and/or label to identify and maybe be able to search for them. Videos could also be encoded for the missing format, but since some of them are already compatible, the id-ing may be a good start for 68k mac users, just a thought! Wink

capt_chuckl3s's picture
Offline
Joined: 2019 Sep 17

The G4 that I have has a 400 mHz PPC, so I'm intrigued as to if it will have any trouble rendering the website.

my vote is to give it a more 90s website feel.

OpenSourceMac's picture
Offline
Joined: 2019 Jan 21

This is way cool. I love stuff like this.

Bolkonskij's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Aug 3

@cbone - I wasn't aware of the 68k incompatibility of Sorenson. I didn't have a chance to test it on a 68k machine and judged by the quality, which led to me switching over to Sorenson. Thanks for pointing that out!! Offering two versions or at least marking the videos is jotted down as a "To-Do". Thank you for this valuable input!

That said, anyone in central Europe having a 68030 / '40 Mac that he / she doesn't use and would sell me so I can use it for benchmarking with Cornica?

@OpenSourceMac - thanks for taking the time to give feedback! Appreciate it! Smile

cbone's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011 Sep 17

You bet, very glad to help out my friend! Just to give you another tool for your inspiring project, I've been able to play cinepak videos using the android port of basilisk on my android chromebook using a Quadra 900 rom and running OS 8.1. Quicktime 4.0.3 has been the most compatible version and player, more details on that below.

The following avi samples of big buck bunny encoded for me on the videohelp forums require quicktime 4.0.3 and that version's player. Earlier versions of quicktime cannot play these encoded video files.

This archived video of the 1984 Apple commercial, as well as your higher-res samples of it on Cornica, all play on my emulated mac using quicktime 4.0.3. However, the ad video I linked above also plays on the quicktime 2.5 player, so its video encoding is more compatible with the older versions of quicktime. I hope these details help my friend!

cbone's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011 Sep 17

Nicolas announced his beta of Cornica almost exactly seven years ago on valentine's day Smile thanks again for this, Bolkonskij!

What process and hw/sw are you using to convert youtube videos? As a side note, both Chrome OS and Android versions of VLC can play these videos and show encoding details, which is a easy way to see what macs they can play on.

Ataru29's picture
Offline
Joined: 2018 Apr 10

I just wanted to compliment Bolkonskij on reviving Cornica, because as someone who wasn't in the Mac scene back then, I never had a chance to test it out, and I must say, it's great.
I've tested it with Netscape 7 (I think; the 2003 verison) on my B&W G3, without any issues. It's really cool to stream videos on my 20 something years old PPC. Just like @cbone said, I'd like too to know what process do you have to convert the videos so that I can try to make some myself.
EDIT: I've just tested it on my PB G4 1,33 and it's as great, and of course faster. I think that Cornica should be also known outside of the Mac scene, because I'm sure that old Windows laptop could see a tad more use if people knew such a site existed.

Bolkonskij's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Aug 3

Thanks for the feedback, guys! That's really encouraging! My conversion process is far from perfect and rather tedious and involves two machines (a Mac Pro for the download from YouTube and my PowerMac G4 MDD for the practical work). Even on my Dual 1.67Ghz G4 setup it takes some time to convert stuff. I will post a detailed description with links to the used software to convert the stuff on the Cornica site, so anyone interested will be able to look it up. I wonder what other people's ways are or if we'll be able to find an easier way. (anyone know of a program that can convert .mp4 to .mov in OS9?)

Other than that, I'm glad to say that I've started coding the back-end for the new Cornica, a database will keep track of everything as Cornica grows. If I get my PowerMac 8600 back up I'll also have a good testing of various settings on that machine.

Can't wait for the weekend, already made plans for the wife and kids to get away ... Wink

cbone's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011 Sep 17

Woohoo, have fun this weekend! Smile

As I'm researching older video codecs and players, I've unearthed a couple of players and one windows-based encoder that creates video that is mac-compatible but only on it's own player, even though I'm sure it creates a quicktime-compatible video file. I used the sample avi file I was given before to encode video with their encoder. It plays fine with their 68k player on Basilisk and with all VLC versions I tried, except the Chrome OS version. The windows version also gave me encoding details, although I figure all other desktop versions would also provide codec details.

It showed that that it was encoded with Smacker Video (SMK4) and Smacker Audio (SMKA).

Boy, I love to ramble, lol Smile my point, which I totally forgot to make, was that this is another 'new', 68k friendly video codec format I happened upon for legacy macs that might be found useful for the Cornica web video library project.

Bolkonskij's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Aug 3

Well, weekend didn't went exactly as planned (child no. 2 developed a tonsilitis, so we went and played the search-a-pediatrist-a-weekend game) but things got better by now.

I've worked on Cornica and came up with a design that will work even on Netscape 3 (heard that m68k? Smile ) and has a 90s flair yet still isn't eye-cancer. Well, I'll let you guys judge on the latter (soon) Smile

Meanwhile I've got permission of 65scribe from YouTube (Hi, Jay! ) to convert his videos and put them on Cornica. He says he may even mention Cornica in one of his future video, which would be awesome. God bless the man! Smile

Regarding the Codecs we're at crossroads now. I've been tinkering some more with cinepak vs. sorenson. With the exact same settings, Sorenson produces about 50% smaller files at a (noteable!) higher quality.
Deciding to go exclusively for Sorenson would mean to exclude those with a 030 & 040 Mac. (but is there anyone?)

On the other hand, if using cinepak as the standard code everyone else gets higher file sizes and less quality. And I'm not sure just how many people would be interested in streaming Quicktime video on their Quadra 800s.

The easiest way would be to consistently provide TWO versions but that would mean a lot of extra work. Every video needs to be processed and the same would go for user submitted videos. That's a lot of handwork I'd rather like to avoid.

If using a 040 Mac, I suppose you'd be streaming a small 10MB clip rather than the 300 MB Computer Chronicles episode, so a compromise might be using cinepak for smaller clips and sorenson for the rest.

What do you guys think about it?

cbone's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011 Sep 17

Alas, my holy 68k video grail almost made the mark. Crying A few summers ago, I set out to get some video love for 68k macs, but finding clips that worked seemed ephemeral. My quest started when I came across the first Quadra beautifully playing full-screen video.

I know Sorenson blows Cinepak out of the water, but I'm hoping the following resources may yield you better encodes and minimally, that short clips may also be part of the Cornica project:

Apple's 1984 commercial has so far been the only one I could make play as far back as Quicktime 2.5. Quicktime 4.0.3 is more accomodating as far as more video file types. I jotted down the specs of the video as a basis for encoding my own 68k video.

The one promising encoding software is Cinepak Pro. This page straight from a video compression tips and techniques book gives some detail about the background and features of this enhanced version of Cinepak and Cinepak Pro's own website comparing Pro, promising to deliver much better output at lower rates than the freely distributed, regular Cinepak codec.

Then, among a long list of legacy codecs, this webpage mentions both (three versions of) Cinepak and the Indeo video 3 codecs. It states that Indeo video 3 needs more processing power to encode than cinepak, which nowadays is hopefully not that big of an issue. So those appear to be the two codecs to try, at least from everything I've found on the subject so far.

Also, last week I uploaded a proprietary 68k player to the Garden called Smacker Player that I used to playback some video on my 68k Mac, which I encoded on my Windows 10 desktop. This has been my first and only successful encoding of a video with working audio. I had to use some older video sources, in this case, the uploaded Cinepak samples I received (here's my original videohelp post), to be able to encode with their tools. Here is the link to their encoding tools (Windows only, and works on Windows 10) and Mac FAT player.

Here's a few more links to chew on:
Cinepak's technical specs
Cinepak's connection to game titles like Myst
Cinepak Windows codec downloads