This page is a wiki. Please login or create an account to begin editing.


13 posts / 0 new
Last post
inuya5ha's picture
Offline
Joined: 2018 Jul 16
Can we please make uploads actually compatible with the target OS?

Browsing old app versions on this site, I keep finding them in all possible formats ever created. BIN, SIT, DMG, CRD, and so on... take Quick Time 6 for example, it is in SIT which once extracted to CDR it is totally useless in MacOS 9.

Can the site's owner please suggest users to upload files in a COMPATIBLE FORMAT FOR THE TARGET OS, please? Otherwise it becomes really troublesome to install certain apps on older MacOS versions, which I think is the point of this site... thanks.

Also, why do Mac users love to put container formats files inside another container format file? Is it so hard to compress stuff only once, so it can be extracted and used directly?

Comments

SkyCapt's picture
Offline
Joined: 2017 Jan 11

.cdr should be the same as .toast and .iso, it can be opened in OS9 using Toast (v5 for example) and Apple software Disk Copy 6.5b13

Two nested containers can be useful if the inner container is an official package, then the outer container preserves the correct date/time and type/creator of the inner container.

24bit's picture
Offline
Joined: 2010 Nov 19

There is no simple answer.
In general apps of a given time are already preserved to the best of knowledge matching the target OS.
As SkyCapt pointed out already, its better to loose the SIT resource fork than the one from the IMG inside.
Stuffit itself used the container-in container handling back in the days called HQX to preserve the SIT file.

There is no problem expanding convoluted containers especially with macOS and The Unarchiver methinks. Windows users may have to toil a little harder.

Next come Mac emulators. With vintage Mac becoming rare, we will have to rely on emulation.
Think of MiniVMac II running System 6 on your macOS host.
Which containment do you choose?
My bet is a NDIF image deflated with 7Zip or Keka. Both compressions are incompatible with System 6 obviously. Nevertheless its the best (if not only) way to move an application towards such setup without stuffing or zipping it. (I know there are ImportFL and ExportFL but the resource fork problem persists.)

That said, we would need a storage container not only matching the target OS, but also the exact vintage Mac running the given app - or the host OS where a compatible emulation or virtualisation does run.
This is simply impossible, as no uploader can tell on which vintage Mac or emulator his donation shall be given a go to run.

In conclusion, its the downloader´s part to get things done, even if a IMG is a HQX file on a zipped ISO.
That does not exclude the option to add a second DL on a given page to ease things.
Some people have done that already occasionally, when a app seemed to be catchy to get used.

inuya5ha's picture
Offline
Joined: 2018 Jul 16

I see. Then it wouldn't be a bad idea to create a small page explaining how to access to the contents of certain downloads depending on file type.

This could be a simple table with this structure:

OS Version | Extension | How to Extract
MacOS 9 | CDR | Install [program name] to mount image [explain how]
MacOS 9 | SIT | Install [program name] to extract into desktop [explain how]
... | ... | ...

PS. I know we could Google each scenario for each file according to OS version, etc., but driving users away from your site because the site's lack of information, is generally not a good idea. Making downloads easier to deal with will keep users coming back for more.

systemseven's picture
Offline
Joined: 2016 May 19

inuya5ha, its really hard to take you serious when your introduction to the community is to come in and tell people something is impossible or broken (that you didn't take the 3 seconds to research) and then post in a half dozen different places about all your problems with the site and what people should be doing to make it fit you. im sure you dont realize, because you dont look anything up first, but this place and all the material here is uploaded free of charge and without ads by volunteers who are sharing their time and resources. if you can't check your entitled attitude at the door, don't let it hit you on the way out.

WhosIt.There's picture
Offline
Joined: 2014 Aug 23

Yep, either a troll, and egomaniacs, and/or a moron ... makes me wish the forum had a killfile / ignore filter. Sad

inuya5ha's picture
Offline
Joined: 2018 Jul 16

Again, the argument of "content is free and made by volunteers" is brought up to justify an obsolete website structure and design. You mean that because the content is free, and made by effort of volunteers, it cannot and must not be improved for accessibility to new users? That because info can be found in Google the site does not need more info? I took the time to register and provide feedback with the only objective of helping improve the site and bring more users, nothing more.

Don't expect many users providing more feedback in the future, if this is your reaction to comments and suggestions. I wonder what the site's owner has to say about your attitude towards new users, but I consider his silence says enough.

WhosIt.There's picture
Offline
Joined: 2014 Aug 23

Can we please ban this obnoxious troll?? Sad

MikeTomTom's picture
Online
Joined: 2009 Dec 7

I took the time to register and provide feedback with the only objective of helping improve the site and bring more users, nothing more.

I'm sorry man but you've been here for less than a week and if your only reason for taken such trouble to register to post is to "educate us" as to the error of our ways, then I am afraid you have missed the point of what participation here is all about.

Because you could not figure out how .cdr was compatible with an OS 9x, instead of simply asking how to deal with such a file, your 1st reaction was to post into 4 or 5 separate threads of how it was not possible to use that .cdr file in that OS and therefore we have to change the way everything is done just to make it compatible for you.

If you had asked in the page of the .cdr in question you would have gotten the answer you needed. In fact later that day, despite your belligerent post in that thread you did get an answer. By me. "Gee thanks for that info Mike it's well appreciated" did I hear you say? Nope, just more of the same ranting in other threads and pissing off the regulars.

If you actually have an interest in learning about classic Mac software and how to use it but you don't know how it can be done. Then lurk, read up on it. Find other sources of info, of which there is a huge amount of and ask questions if you need to know why something is not working for you.

Be aware: Your loud introduction into the MG has attracted the interest of the management here. And not in a positive light so far. Do at least attempt to be civil and talk to people here if you actually do want to participate. Not at them.

I am locking this thread down, as my comments do not warrant a response and enough has been said on this matter. Thanks.

IIGS_User's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009 Apr 8

Let's think about the idea of:

This could be a simple table with this structure:

OS Version | Extension | How to Extract
MacOS 9 | CDR | Install [program name] to mount image [explain how]
MacOS 9 | SIT | Install [program name] to extract into desktop [explain how]
... | ... | ...

Right concerns about G**gle and similar pages, let's collect these informations at this server.

cbone's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011 Sep 17

I usually consider a few such options myself, especially when uploading files, which I've only done a few times..one was the 4th version of Just Grandma and me.

When I owned the original game, I made a compressed image for my own use on a CD-less 68k Powerbook 800c; I have a feeling I may have used Aladdin's ShrinkWrap to do this back then. Fortunately when I tried it under Basilisk II and SheepShaver, it opened just fine under various Mac OSes.

When I found a backup of that original image, I converted to a binhex 4 file to upload here. I figured that since binhex 4 has been around since the mid-'80s and it was not proprietary like Aladdin's Stuff-It, it was a more trouble-free choice. This way any file resources would be retained within the binhex container, since I remember files messing up when I tried copying binary files to and/or from a PC to an emulated Mac.

Some may argue .hqx files are bigger and generally obsolete, but the difference is more negligible these days with so many other sites having used that format forever and a day and older compression tools like compact pro handling this format perfectly, it just felt right.

You know, I actually think you're on to something: providing a link with steps on how to decipher these archived files would be a good idea for folks who've never used Macs before.

inuya5ha's picture
Offline
Joined: 2018 Jul 16

Your last paragraph should be set to Arial 32px. Finally someone who understands the point instead of focusing on my allegedly aggresive tone only. You've stated very clearly exactly what I was trying to explain from the beginning, thank you.

Admitting that stuff can be improved (regardless of being free or not) is a great progress, let's see if the site's owner considers this suggestion too.

I know this information that is missing means nothing to MacOS users from past decades that already know how to handle each format for each OS version, but (I think) nowadays content must be targeted to brand new, Windows-only users to keep user acquisition and traffic as high as possible. Now, if helping new users is not one of the site's primary goals, then just do nothing, disregard all feedback, and leave the layout and structure untouched for the next 10 years or so.

PS. one last thing to note:
linking = driving users away from your site, to maybe never return or bookmark another site instead of yours (must avoid this at all costs).
adding content inline = improving user experience, acquisition, loyalty, SEO and site's general relevance to the user. Ctrl+C is your friend, not an enemy.
telling users to Google and f*** off = the worst thing you can do to your site.

systemseven's picture
Offline
Joined: 2016 May 19

i would like to make a suggestion for improving this site:
ive never needed this before, but please add a user ignore list so i can block someone

Topic locked