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OpenSourceMac's picture
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Joined: 2019 Jan 21
Blu-Ray Burning/Reading in Tiger...

So have had this drive for nearly 2 years, but finally got around to trying it burning Data on my PPC G4 Mac. The drive is an LG BH16NS40 that officially supports Quad-Layer Blu-ray discs and data writes up to 100GB (as well as ultra-archival 1000-year M-Discs in both DVD and Blu-ray formats). It states it is supported by Tiger, but here has been my experience.

So first off - Finder won't Burn or Read Blu-rays - PERIOD, at least with my setup. In first insertion of the disc and burning, it shows the proper-amount of space, and starts-off fine, but invariably craps out before writing anything (thank goodness as these discs are expensive ;0p.
Later tried the posh burning app "Disco" and same effect. Sees the disc, but can't write to it.

So finally tried Toast 9 (has the Blu-Ray addon installed) and this BURNS FINE! Note - it DID require me to manually select "BR-R" in the drop-down.
Also shows support for BR-R DL (50GB), but no official support for QL (100GB) discs, so that might not be happening (perhaps only shows up if such a disc is inserted?). I suspect the drive doesn't actually have this capability because I have the same drive in my PC with commercial Blu-ray movie software and still can't watch 4K discs. Maybe a firmware update is required.

Tested 11GB and it took about 15 minutes. BUT worked. At the end it verified (another 10 minutes or so) and gave me the option to "Mount" the disc. Sadly, if you don't take that opportunity, there appears to be no way to mount/remount the finished Blu-ray later in Tiger as Finder STILL CAN'T SEE IT, and Toast can't either once it's ejected.

BUT, it it does work GREAT on my PC running Windows 10, and XBox One/PS4.

Now according to Toast it can also burn proper Blu-ray movies (un-encrypted), but I've not had a chance to try that yet - will report in once I do.

Just as a side note: The files were being pulled from my raid over Firewire 800, and Toast's buffering was set to my lone SSD (Virtual Memory/Scratch volume) - all connections upgraded to SATA. This is an MDD, so my optical disk is on 33MHz IDE (with SATA Bridge), but didn't seem to cause any problems.

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adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

What happens if you insert the disc and attempt to image it with Disk Utility or Toast? Can you mount the image in the Finder?

OpenSourceMac's picture
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Joined: 2019 Jan 21

It brings up the Initialization warning. Just doesn't see the format (apparently, the base format isn't UDF). I used to wonder if it was just the encryption, but it's the finished discs themselves.

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

Ah; I think I found the problem:

Blu-ray Disc specifies the use of Universal Disk Format (UDF) 2.50 as a convergent-friendly format for both PC and consumer electronics environments. It is used in the latest specifications of BD-ROM, BD-RE, and BD-R.[133][134][135] In the first BD-RE specification (defined in 2002), the BDFS (Blu-ray Disc File System) was used. The BD-RE 1.0 specification was defined mainly for the digital recording of high-definition television (HDTV) broadcast television. The BDFS was replaced by UDF 2.50 in the second BD-RE specification in 2005, in order to enable interoperability among consumer electronics Blu-ray recorders and personal computer systems. These optical disc recording technologies enabled PC recording and playback of BD-RE.[135][136][137] BD-R can use UDF 2.50/2.60.[138]

The Blu-ray Disc application for recording of digital broadcasting has been developed as System Description Blu-ray Rewritable Disc Format part 3 Audio Visual Basic Specifications (BDAV). The requirements related with computer file system have been specified in System Description Blu-ray Rewritable Disc Format part 2 File System Specifications version 1.0 (BDFS).[139] Initially, the BD-RE version 1.0 (BDFS) was specifically developed for recording of digital broadcasts using the Blu-ray Disc application (BDAV application). But these requirements are superseded by the Blu-ray Rewritable Disc File System Specifications version 2.0 (UDF) (a.k.a. RE 2.0) and Blu-ray Recordable Disc File System Specifications version 1.0 (UDF) (a.k.a. R 1.0). Additionally, a new application format, BDMV (System Description Blu-ray Disc Prerecorded Format part 3 Audio Visual Basic Specifications) for High Definition Content Distribution was developed for BD-ROM. The only file system developed for BDMV is the System Description Blu-ray Read-Only Disc Format part 2 File System Specifications version 1.0 (UDF) which defines the requirements for UDF 2.50.[135][139]

Tiger supports UDF 1.0, but probably doesn't know about 2.60, considering 2.60 was only standardized in 2010, after the last updates for Tiger were already out the door. Leopard *may* support it.

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=123339 seems to bear this out.

[edit] I've checked through Apple's support site for any mention of UDF 2.5 or 2.6... and there's nothing. Not just in the update documentation, but anywhere. However, I believe 10.6 and later have support, just not sure about 10.5 and 10.4. I should check my 10.6 PPC install and see if it's got support....

OpenSourceMac's picture
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Joined: 2019 Jan 21

Yep! Is still REALLY useful though. If I can do an archival M-Disc for under $10 that is rated for 1000 years and will be readable by Linux, Windows and Newer Macs then this still rocks. And another great point is that Toast 9 will support ReWritable Blu-rays - so if you just need to move gigs and gigs of data back and fourth it might well be comparable to a number of other formats.

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

Personally, I've just gone to hard disks and SD cards; a 128GB SD card is $18, and a 100GB write-once BD is $9. So I just keep rotating the SD cards, and replacing ones that get old. Same goes for the rotating 1TB pocket drives that go in my safe deposit box, and my dual 5TB online backups.

OpenSourceMac's picture
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Joined: 2019 Jan 21

Nothing wrong with that. What I use most of the time is actually Fuse/NTFS-3G on Tiger with eSATA. As long as the NTFS drive isn't the one Windows itself is on (and there are no forbidden characters like " and ?), the writes work perfectly and talk about FAST. It took a few weeks to find the PCI card, but was well worth it. Sadly, Widnows has really spotty support now for eSATA, but it has USB 3 - so between the two, I can move 50GB in less than an hour, which is good enough for me most days.

OpenSourceMac's picture
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Joined: 2019 Jan 21

P.S. I am realizing there are a lot of options for burning Data on one of these. Will see about picking up some more blanks and try them all. For instance, you can burn the disc as HFS or also ISO 9660. It is possible that one of these may work in OSX. Will report back after doing more testing. The above was the normal "Mac and PC" option.

OpenSourceMac's picture
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Joined: 2019 Jan 21

On some further research it does appear that ISO 9660 is required for any hope of getting these to mount in Tiger (Snow Leopard seems to work fine with the normal "Mac and PC" setting for data discs). The only issue with ISO 9660 is that you are stuck with FAT32 naming conventions.

Not a huge deal, as I am really looking to backup for long-term storage of data (rather than system compatibility), but just good info.

sfp1954's picture
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Joined: 2013 Dec 29

As you may or may not know an Apple machine cannot not natively read or play Blu-Ray discs because Apple did not want to pay the licensing fee to have the Blu-Ray firmware embedded on each logic board. So any reading/playing or writing of Blu-Rays must be done using third party software.

https://www.macblurayplayer.com/will-mac-ever-support-bluray.htm

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5733319

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8551553

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8551553

OpenSourceMac's picture
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Joined: 2019 Jan 21

True, but this refers specifically to the Movies. Snow-Leopard has no trouble mounting blu-ray data discs on a compatible drive. I was just listing this for people on Tiger wanting to see what usages are possible.

SkyCapt's picture
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Joined: 2017 Jan 11

Ya, I've been using BD-R 25GB-50GB in Leo and Tiger going on years. Tiger I'm using Toast 7.1.3 (highest v7) to burn data and using the v2009 Roxio Extension to read BD in Tiger, Tiger has no native support for BD that I know of. One thing, Toast slows my computer just having it in the Applications folder. So I zip it in Applications, unzip (doubleclick) it when I want to use it, and erase it when I'm done, no rebooting necessary.

Mirror Door Mac here as well. The ATA-33 MHz port is too slow, BD max'es that port easily. The old PATA ports don't play usefully how they were once intended. To remedy, All of my non-optical storage is connecting to SATA-PCI. Then I don't use an optical drive on ATA-33 MHz because even DVD can max that cable even one drive not two drives sharing ribboncable. I have a dedicated DVD drive in my upper bay because it goes faster than a BluRay drive playing DVD. This connects solo to my "ATA 66" MHz port. And my BluRay drive in lower bay connects solo to my "ATA 100" MHz port. The DVD drive is here for booting purposes also. MirrorDoor firmware isn't allowing booting nor ejecting of an optical disc connected to ATA 100 MHz, but ATA 66 MHz boots from discs and is ejectable at the firmware prompt using the command "eject ultra2". Actually the BD bridge chip I added is questionable and may be the cause of no boot.

I ordered "replacement" optical drive cables for my MirrorDoor so that I could have more than one cable and do this. "Stiff" ribbons found in junk PCs aren't good enough for Mirror Door. You need the "limp" style of PATA ribbon when going lengthier than 18 inches. !

I'm reading BD at up to realworld 50 MB/s anybody else got it this fast? Apple looks like they've greatly handicapped the speed of discs, whereas the PeeCee market understands even a FW800 cable connection will bottleneck BD so a SATA connection is the known minimum way to do it.