This page is a wiki. Please login or create an account to begin editing.


17 posts / 0 new
Last post
Sydonai's picture
Offline
Joined: 2019 Apr 2
Black screen on Beige G3 with Radeon 9200

I'm having a great deal of trouble getting my Radeon 9200 working on my Beige G3. The problem is thus; When I start my Mac, I hear the startup chime, but the screen on my VGA monitor remains black no matter how long I wait. I've tried resetting the pram, starting without extensions, starting without my PCI USB card, booting into both OS 9.2.2 and OS X, using another 9200 (neither worked), and all manner of driver and extension updates, although I suspect it'd still show the boot screen if it was an extension problem. The built-in Rage II and my usual Radeon 7000 both work perfectly fine, I just can't get the 9200 working. My system specs below:

500mhz Powerlogix G3
768mb Ram
128gb HDD

EDIT: I've noticed something interesting. If I hot-swap to the integrated Rage II, It's frozen on the spinning wheel at startup. Looks like starting the machine with the monitor plugged into the 9200 causes it to freeze before getting to the OS. Still sound like a driver problem, or does this point to more of a hardware/firmware problem?

ULTRA EDIT: For anyone who stumbles across this page while having the same problem I did, I've found a solution; just get the original Radeon. The 9200's reputation of being finicky and problematic is well-deserved, and (in the tests I've seen) it's weaker than the Radeon it's based on anyways. Finding mac-compatible PCI Radeons can be a little tricky, as even the sellers are frequently not aware they're mac-compatible. If you're plumbing ebay, don't bother looking for the official name of "Radeon Mac Edition". That didn't do me any good. Instead, look for "Radeon SG32M" or "Radeon 109-77700-00". It'll have a DVI port, a VGA port, a fan-equipped heatsink, and it should have "PN: 109-77700-00" printed in white on the edge of the card, above the heatsink. Prices are generally around $30-$40. Happy hunting!

Comments

Jatoba's picture
Offline
Joined: 2018 Apr 16

From the info provided, it sounds like a problem related to GPU drivers or the Radeon 9200s' firmware/BIOS contained in them. At first I suspected your display was defective, but you say it works with other cards, so we discard that possibility...

You mention you tried both 9.2.2 and X, but what version of X? Not sure if you have already done it, but try multiple versions of X, if not. Both old and new.

If it still doesn't work, if you are comfortable with the idea, I'd suggest trying perhaps a flavor of GNU/Linux to see if _that_ gets you a display! You don't need to even install it -- a boot CD might be just fine, just to boot from it! A version of Ubuntu with a GUI might be a good idea (for friendliness).

If even GNU/Linux distros don't work, however, I'd get suspicious of both GPUs' conditions (physical condition and whether or not it has been unsuccessfully flashed in the past by a previous owner). But it hopefully won't come down to that. But if the latter is true (failed flashing), you most likely have means to restore (flash back) a correct GPU firmware/BIOS.

Hope any of this helps.

Sydonai's picture
Offline
Joined: 2019 Apr 2

I'll give Linux a shot first, that sounds like a good idea. It could still be drivers; I'm kinda suspecting it's not a bad flash (used two cards), but I'll keep that in mind as a possibility. As for X, I used 10.2.4 and 10.2.8, no luck on either. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll see if anything works out and reply with my findings.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, one of the 9200's was supposedly tested and working on a G4 sawtooth. Fairly certain it wasn't damaged in shipping, although the box was slightly squooshed.

24bit's picture
Offline
Joined: 2010 Nov 19

My guess would be a missing driver too. Did the 9200 even make it into the officially approved graphics card bouquet at Apple?
ATI has a download here for 10.3.6: https://www.amd.com/de/support/graphics/mac-graphics/radeon-9xxx-mac-ser...
The DL seems to work still, sadly there is no 9.2 driver at ATI seemingly. Lets hope the Waybackmachine did capture that.

Edit:
ATI drivers for MacOS9 are here: https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/#CR

Screenshot-2019-04-02-at-21-14-23

Sydonai's picture
Offline
Joined: 2019 Apr 2

No luck with the OS9 drivers, but I'll take another crack at a clean install tonight.

Sydonai's picture
Offline
Joined: 2019 Apr 2

No luck in OS X or OS 9 with either of the driver sets. I have noticed something interesting, however; if I hot-swap to the integrated Rage II, It's frozen on the spinning wheel at startup. Looks like starting the machine with the monitor plugged into the 9200 causes it to freeze before getting to the OS. Still sound like a driver problem, or does this point to more of a hardware/firmware problem?

24bit's picture
Offline
Joined: 2010 Nov 19

Did you try OSX as well?
If its not the driver/kernel extension (alone), I would proceed as Jatoba said.
Here are some Debian builds, one will match your hardware, hopefully.
https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/inst/install

If you have another Mac to try the ATI 9200, that may help a lot to rule out hardware or firmware issues.

Sydonai's picture
Offline
Joined: 2019 Apr 2

Unfortunately I don't have any other PCI macs lying around, or that definitely would've been the first thing I tried.

Thanks for the Debian link! Unfortunately, (or fortunately, in terms of pay) I just got a humongous order in from work, so it'll probably be a while before I have the spare time to give linux a shot. I'll definitely see how it works out once I get the chance.

SkyCapt's picture
Offline
Joined: 2017 Jan 11

I think PCI cards ain't hot-swapable. You could destroy equipment.

9200 Radeon is classified as a "mobility" GPU, no? If it's not an Apple card it might not have any Apple driver. Apple switched from PCI to AGP before 9200 was made, so maybe never supported.

See this:
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/ati-radeon-9250-mac-os-9-drivers

Sydonai's picture
Offline
Joined: 2019 Apr 2

I don't think the 9200 is a mobility unit, it's explicitly labeled as "Mac edition". Could be wrong though.

Also, I probably should've chosen my terminology better. By "hot-swap", I just meant pulling the monitor VGA plug from the 9200 and plugging it into the Rage II. I didn't yank any PCI cards while the machine was running.

Troyd's picture
Offline
Joined: 2014 Nov 14

I flashed a PC Radeon 9200 PCI card and used it in a PowerMac 9600. It is supported but the required drivers are from ATI, not Apple.

http://lowendmac.com/2004/ati-radeon-9200-mac-edition-pci/

A lot of Mac peripherals don't work in Digital Audios and Quicksilvers like flashed SATA cards but the beige G3 should work.

sfp1954's picture
Offline
Joined: 2013 Dec 29

Actual driver link:
https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/ATI_Radeon_9200_Mac_Edition/ATI_Radeon_92...

SNakApple's picture
Offline
Joined: 2019 Apr 6

Greetings,

Well, my name is Franky. I'm an "old" Apple Hardware Specialist, so I will try to help as I can like everybody here.

The Radeon 9200 is known to have a lot of troubles with PCI Macs. And this card is not easy to install... There is many forums elsewhere on the web about it.

Even if it is a Mac Edition or not, the most inportant thing is to identify the DVI port. Some models have a DVI-D port & other ones a DVI-I port. You should recognize it easily over the web... This is only for installing drivers with Mac OS 9. Drivers needed by a DVI-I card are here. I recommend to deactivate all previous ATI extensions before installing all the new ones.

Now, for Mac OS X, you may (or not) know that certain versions are not working with this card. You can look at this page if needed. Perhaps it could be useful to remove the card especially if you plan to install a fresh system. In this case, it will not try to install 'bad" drivers if it can't detect the card. I'm not sure for that, I haven't tested...

If this not solve your problems, then you can try also to install Panther or Tiger on your machine. I've done it myself 15 years ago on my own Minitower Beige G3. Smile

Let me know the results. Good luck, I cross my fingers for you. Wink

HTWH.....

Sydonai's picture
Offline
Joined: 2019 Apr 2

Hey Franky! Thanks for the reply.

I'm definitely seeing people having trouble with the 9200s, they seem to be pretty finicky when it comes to Old World macs. Both of my cards are DVI-I cards. I just picked up a clean ibook with a radeon 7500 (32mb), so I think that'll handle my 3D OS9 gaming for now; I think my G3 will have to be happy with its Radeon 7000 for a while. I'll definitely take another crack at the 9200 (especially with linux, as people have been suggesting) once my schedule opens back up and my free time returns.

Sydonai's picture
Offline
Joined: 2019 Apr 2

Well, I found a solution! Turns out it was easier and better to just get an original Radeon. The 9200's just not worth the trouble, and Mac-compatible PCI radeons are pretty cheap on eBay.

Sydonai's picture
Offline
Joined: 2019 Apr 2

For anyone who stumbles across this page while having the same problem I did, I've found a solution; just get the original Radeon. The 9200's reputation of being finicky and problematic is well-deserved, and (in the tests I've seen) it's weaker than the Radeon it's based on anyways. Finding mac-compatible PCI Radeons can be a little tricky, as even the sellers are frequently not aware they're mac-compatible. If you're plumbing ebay, don't bother looking for the official name of "Radeon Mac Edition". That didn't do me any good. Instead, look for "Radeon SG32M" or "Radeon 109-77700-00". It'll have a DVI port, a VGA port, a fan-equipped heatsink, and it should have "PN: 109-77700-00" printed in white on the edge of the card, above the heatsink. Prices are generally around $30-$40. Happy hunting!

SNakApple's picture
Offline
Joined: 2019 Apr 6

Indeed, PowerMacs and other Macs from this era don't like "exotic" cards (PCI or RAM) very much... Smile