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Maximum R.I.S.C.'s picture
Joined: 2017 Oct 18
Bizarre File Behavior in PPC Tiger...

Have run into a strange bug. I have two files that for some reason will not allow me to hide extensions on. It's not happening on any other files, and when I open under a different account, the files hide-extensions works just fine, but on coming back to my main account the extensions show even this the boxes to hide are checked.

Have tried the following:

1. Regenerated the files (mp4s) 3X.

2. Chowned/Chmodded in Terminal.

3. Run full OnyX.

4. Renamed the files (then the feature works. But as soon as I go back to the other names, the hide stops working).

OK so this isn't a big deal, but is straight-up bizzare. At first I wondered if it had to do with Finder Cache, but even when I create the files on another system, they still have this issue.

Stumped.

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SkyCapt's picture
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Joined: 2017 Jan 11

ya, lots of bugs and glitches in Tiger, many I found workarounds for. I've noticed it is buggy trying to rename extensions from in Finder windows, such as highlighting a file and pressing return to edit its filename. If I stick to using the File Info pop-up to perform renaming of extensions, then it always works.

Right now I'm dealing with a bug in the "diff" command of Terminal in which I'm trying to verify that certain folders are being copied accurately so, after being copied, I say "diff -r {source1} {source2}" and intermittently get false reports of inaccuracies. I'll experience a period of frequent false differences and then a long period of no problems, and I'm certain it ain't any drive making bad reads. The folders really are being copied correctly, the false differences are bad math within "diff", intermittent.

Maximum R.I.S.C.'s picture
Joined: 2017 Oct 18

I neglected to mention I even did a Bash mv command to rename it isn't working. Am assuming I have a stuck .DS_Store file somewhere.

Is very rare that Finder doesn't copy perfectly (checksums as it goes). This is likely some type of under-run from raid-0. If one drive has an even slight delay (like in garbage-collection mode), it will outrun buffer and cannot be re-sequenced with the original thread.

It's only in relatively-late model Mac Pros that they even officially support raid-0 for boot because the new logic-boards have massive buffer-caches.

WhosIt.There's picture
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Joined: 2014 Aug 23

ya, lots of bugs and glitches in Tiger

There are lots of bugs and glitches in every version of Mac OS X, including the current "High Sierra" / 10.13. Sad

Maybe they shouldn't have bought NeXT and just released the proper OS 9 successor, Copland, they already had.

Maximum R.I.S.C.'s picture
Joined: 2017 Oct 18

The only one I honestly felt was "Bulletproof" was Panther. I know a lot of folks reported FileVault errors/corruption, and Terminal was much harder to use, but overall, it just kinda worked perfectly.

From Tiger on, I've need to run maintenance at least every 2 weeks.

OS9 also seems to have a lot of problems (compared to 8.6) at least. I remember at one big firm we had a 3-strikes rule. If we had to force reboot OS9 3x, we'd just rebuild it because by then there would be so many damaged code-strings the system would be useless (at least without running full DiskWarrior).

SkyCapt's picture
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Joined: 2017 Jan 11

Mac OS bugs are like trying to stop a leak in an overpressurized boiler, u plug the one and then the resulting pressure buildup starts another leak at the newest weak point... one of Tiger's silliest bugs must be the Play system sound effects yes/no in System Preferences, say No but so many sounds play regardless, took Apple about five years to eventually fix these by adding just some "if..then" statements. High Sierra bugs? like bypassing security with admin priv just by typing name 'root' and no pswd whatsoever, iyiyi...

Copland (i assume named after the american composer Aaron Copland, since Apple used Mozart and other musical project codenames) the biggest deal was to be Protective Memory and my understanding is this one important feature never got completed because it would required a near total rewrite of the OS, whereas microsoft began laying the foundation for mem.prot. in win '95, and most others such as sun-sparc-solaris already had it.

I don't like Panther, the UI is so vanilla and too many important features are missing, like Core Image, no booting from USB, no booting from software raid, no power management keys on generic keyboards, no using a scrollwheel for screen-zoom, etc.etc. and its own bugs that Tiger actually fixes. I like Jaguar (aka Smeagol when it is run on G5 hardware), if u'r gonna "go retro" then go big, go all the way.

SkyCapt's picture
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Joined: 2017 Jan 11

The trouble i'm having with certain files is bad. Terminal command "diff" is intermittently reporting false errors AND some actual errors are appearing in copied folders. Zero hardware issues and this problem is manifesting in every version of OS X I tested 10.2.6 thru 10.5.8

I just caught it red-handed. I rebooted fresh to Tiger (Server 10.4.11) and ripped a scifi DVD disc from yr 1999 onto HFS+. Without even using DVD Player, then I copied the VIDEO_TS folder to another HFS+, and then I compared the two hfs folders using "diff -r" ~ it told me 2 of the files were corrupt. I rebooted recompared and then was told just 1 file was corrupt. Repeated comparisons/rebooting showed that file Really was corrupt, not falsely reported. Copies which corrupt, and compares that are not to be trusted! I ripped the DVD a second time in 10.4.8 and it matches the first rip, it is the copy operation corrupted. Ripping, an app, works.

Glad I caught this b4 making a mess of my DVD collection. I'm taking this talk off this thread, see my link a little farther down this page.

melomac's picture
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Joined: 2018 Feb 26

Just for our curiosity, what are the name of the files, their potential extended attributes and ACLs, and their Finder legacy attributes?

ls -ale@ /path/to/file
GetFileInfo /path/to/file

Maximum R.I.S.C.'s picture
Joined: 2017 Oct 18

getfileinfo doesn't work in my version of Tiger, but the trouble-files are rwxr-xr-x and should be rw-r--r--
But after chmod 644, that seems to be fixed and yet the extension deal hasn't changed.

Bout ready to just live with it. Oh well a 'Mystery'!

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

I remember at the time I got around that by using dd to image my DVDs and then I’d just mount the image to play the content. Now I’ve handbraked most of those images except where there is interesting non-video content I’d lose by doing so.

SkyCapt's picture
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Joined: 2017 Jan 11

Hi, this thread was originally about mp4 files, then I described DVD (mp2 files) since the topic title fits. Imaging them vs 'ripping' them, each way has its advantages it seems.

Maximum R.I.S.C.'s picture
Joined: 2017 Oct 18

You mean like web-interactive? That type of stuff you can usually just drag-off the DVD since it isn't encrypted the way the video is. If you mean Subtitles, that's a different animal. You often have to pick the subs you want and burn them in and this is COMPLICATED in some cases.

I have a pretty huge DVD collection and have been converting it, as some of the discs are starting to get laser-rot and don't always read correctly. Have run into a handful that took some real effort (like the ones that have like 80,000 deliberately bad blocks - they can take a week to rip).

SkyCapt's picture
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Joined: 2017 Jan 11

OSX Leopard PPC 10.5.8 also has corrupted compares ("diff -r" and maybe other Terminal commands) of where DVD file data on HFS+ file system is concerned. When I compare my DVD Collection folder to its backups, about 20% of titles report corruption, rerun the "diff -r" again then it reports other titles not the same as previously, it has Random false errors. I had messed with it long enough that it stopped misbehaving, thus I say it does this intermittently, and now it's doing it again. Tiger Client and Tiger Server do this too. Not going to be hardware at fault, ive more than one backup and multiple drive units, multiple interfaces doing this, no other read/write issues, no crashing. Ultimately 10.5.8 needs to work right, because only it on PPC can push the SATA-PCI interface to operate more than 2.2 terabytes per drive unit.

I'm succeeding at figuring this out! Let me divert to another Bizarre Tiger Behavior that I've just solved :

I've been mounting then ejecting images of "Mac OS ROM" v1.6 (OSX version string reads "Mac OS ROM Update 1.0") as part of my startup sequence, it speeds up my Mac when done in the correct order. ***It turns out the image file must contain an "Apple Partition Map" or else the DVD drive stops mounting 'Hollywood' DVDs (VIDEO_TS folders on the UDF file system, see data DVDs stay functioning). This is a Tiger-only fault, and any version of the "Mac OS ROM" file will do.

My OEM supplied OS9 System Folder named "OS9General.dmg" has the APM; to find out type "diskutil list" in Terminal while the image is mounted. So that image didn't have this DVD problem. You can test the problem by creating your own images of any ROM file, using a USB thumbdrive say.

Erase thumbdrive, no OS9 Disk Drivers, copy "Mac OS ROM" file to thumbdrive, create one image of the thumbdrive Partition-Only! (bottom tier in Disk Utility) and name it accordingly, create another image of the thumbdrive Device-Header (middle or upper tier) and name it accordingly. You should see Apple Partition Scheme/Apple Partition Map in diskutil list when you mount the headered image, no such thing when you mount the first more basic image.

Now reboot in Tiger, mount the stripped-down-no-APM image, eject it, then try to load a hollywood DVD in the drive tray. DVD won't mount, but any data-DVD will. Reboot, mount instead the APM image of the ROM, eject it, then try DVD again - DVD works. EDIT: I forgot to mention the reverse situation fails also: reboot in Tiger, mount a hollywood DVD then eject it, and now the first image of a "Mac OS ROM" without APM fails to mount.

It turns out the ROM+APM image is Still having the effect I want, the same effect as the ROM without APM image, so by getting rid of my old ROM images and making new ones with APM included, I have (and never imagined I would be the one) fixed this Bizarre file behavior in Tiger!

Next i'm probably going to find this relates to the bad comparisons of DVD files in Terminal. Don't eject an image containing "Mac OS ROM" all will be well. Mount then eject such an image (APM or not) and DVD video file errors ensue (and not just in Tiger, Leopard too). I've got a lot of testing to do...

SkyCapt's picture
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Joined: 2017 Jan 11

ROM file-fix is working, to allow DVD disc recognition in Tiger OSX, but I find I am STILL getting system corruption.
My use of the "Mac OS ROM" files turns out to NOT be further involved. Turns out the general corruption I'm experiencing happens on all kinds of files, DVD rips is what I was testing at this time, so I believed there could be a connection.

When I get bad comparisons, known as "system damage" for the time being, it can fail to compare two files at all, acting as if the names are a mismatch tho they're identical, and it can even spectacularly KP (do a Kernal Panic fatal error) while comparing folders using Terminal in ALL OSX tested 10.5.8 down to 10.2.6

I've started a new thread for this "system damage" phenomenon:
http://macintoshgarden.org/forum/opening-archive-may-damage-your-system-...

SkyCapt's picture
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Joined: 2017 Jan 11

In answer to the OP, the Finder has its own Preferences.
With Finder being the active app, go to mouse menu Finder or press cmd-comma.
Finder > Preferences > Advanced has a tick for "Show all file extensions" which can override the ticks in File Info. So maybe this pref is at issue, maybe corrupted, try erasing/rebuilding the com.apple.finder prefs file. I keep forgetting Finder has prefpanes because i think of Finder like a background app...