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Bolkonskij's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 3
Be a hero today! (free porn inside - that's a lie, but click anyway)

I know this is probably a futile attempt and unnecessary with long-time contributors but maybe not so much with the occasional Mac Garden visitor.

We're still missing a lot of 80's Macintosh software. With these floppy disks pushing 30+ years now, it's only a matter of time before that software will be lost forever. Heck, half of my floppies are gone already and floppy failure rate rises with every month passing.

Please do posterity a favor and go through your software library. Check your basement and wardrobe. See if you happen to have any old software that is not yet on the Macintosh Garden. No matter how unimportant that software might seem. Yes, we're also looking for Excel templates, Video Works animations and Clip-Art floppy disks.

If you don't have the means to make proper images and upload them, please write nonetheless. If you're in Central Europe, I offer to image your floppy disks with my old Macs and put them on the Garden - crediting you as contributor. Heck, I'll even gladly pay the shipping costs to / from me. There's others who will do the same in other parts of the world,

Just to name a few 1980s Mac titles about to be lost forever:

  • 1st Aid Kit HFS (1st Aid Software Inc., 1988)
  •  

  • A Country Christmas (B&B Soundworks)
  • Albert's House (1987 - Softime Australia)
  • Alter Ego (Female / Male Edition - Activision)
  • ArchiText (1989 - BrainPower)
  • Atlas Explorer (Springboard, 1989)
  •  

  • Bag-0-Tricks (Wing Eng)
  • Balance of Power (1985 original release)
  • Breach - Serayachi Campaign add-on
  • Business Simulator (1987)
  •  

  • Capture (version 1.x - 3.x, 1988 - 1990, Mainstay)
  • CloseView (1988, Berkeley System Design)
  • Computerized Gardening (Ortho Information Systems, 1985)
  • Course Builder (1987 - any version - Telerobotics International)
  •  

  • DashBoard (TENpoint0, 1988)
  • Deluxe Music Construction Set (original version 1.0 from 1985)
  • Desktop Express (1987 - Dow Jones & Company)
  • DiskFinder (1.x - 1989 - Williams & Macias)
  • DynaPerspective (DynaWare - 1989)
  •  

  • Ensemble (1986 - Hayden Software)
  • Entrepreneur (from 1985)
  •  

  • Font DA Juggler Plus (1988, AlSoft Inc.)
     
  • Goldfinger (from Angelsoft)
  • GrayPaint (Mac-Nifty Central, 1986)
  •  

  • Images with Impact! (3G Graphics, 1988)
  •  

  • LXR•Test (Logic eXtension Resources, 1988)
  •  

  • MacCalc (1986, Bravo Technologies)
  • MacCobol (1987, MicroFocus)
  • MacDraft 2 (Innovative Data Design)
  • MacSchedule (1.x or 2.x - Mainstay)
  • MacWorkStation (1987, Apple)
  • Mac Bar Coda (1989 - ComputaLabel)
  • Mac Interiors (1988 - Microspot)
  • Mac Pro Football (1987 - Avalon Hill)
  • MapMaker (version 1.x & 2.x )
  • ModaCAD
  • MORE II
  • MultiClip (1989 Olduvai)
  •  

  • Navigate! (1988)
  •  

  • Orbquest (Qware, Inc.)
  •  

  • Paladin (Omnitrend)
  • Planit Kitchen (1988 Microspot)
  • PowerStation (Fifth Generation Systems)
  •  

  • Quartet (1985 Haba Systems)
  • QuickMail 1.x (CE Software)
  •  

  • Ready,Set,Go! (versions 1.x from 1985)
  • ReadySetShow (1988, Letraset)
     
  • Screen Recorder - 1989 - Farallon Computing
  • Sensei Geometry (Broderbund,1987)
  • SimCity Terrain Editor (Maxis, 1989 original release)
  • Squire (Blue Chip Software - 1986)
  • STELLA for Business (High Performance Systems, 1988)
  • Sword of Kadash (Penguin Software)
  •  

  • Taskmaker (XOR Corporation, original floppy disk release)
  • Tempo (1986 - Affinity Microsystems)
  • TextPert 1.x, 2.x, 3.x (CTA)
  • Thunder! (Electronic Arts, 1987)
  • TML Pascal 2.0 (1988)
  • Trapeze 1.0 - from 1986
  •  

  • Universe 2 (Omnitrend)
  • Visual Business No. 5 v 1.x (Visual Business Systems, 1989)
  •  

  • Wild Things (Language Systems)
  • Willmaker (v. 1.0 to 3.0 - 1989 - Nolo Press)
  • ...
  • ...

These are just a tiny share some of all the missing Macintosh software, there's still a ton more.

Heroes, who deserve songs to be composed in their honor:

  • mrdav for uploading "Seven Cities of Gold", "Temple of Apshai", "Digital Darkroom", "Acknowledge", "AutoMac III", "Smartcom II", "Focal Point II", "Aask", "Publish It! 1.2", "MacRobots" and "Red Ryder's original 1984 release"
  • Franky233 for uploading "v1.0A8 of Go", "MacSpin", "Scoop", "MORE", "PC Tools Deluxe", "QuickMail 2.0", "Mug Shot" and "Thunder II"
  • Daxeria for uploading "For The Record", "MultiDisk", "Cue Film Music System", "DAtabase", "SPAMM", "Modern Artist", "INITPicker", "Prototyper", "On Cue", "Quickmail 3.0", "Just Enough Pascal", "SnapJot", "MacEnvelope", "Shortcut", "Sensei Calculus" and "Sensei Physics"
  • StephenThomasCole for "The Electronic Whole Earth Catalogue"
  • jkheiser for uploading "The Lüscher Profile"
  • krausjxotv for uploading "Acta Advantage"

Please be a hero today and upload your software to the Mac Garden, to ensure it won't be lost forever.

Comments

m68k's picture
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Joined: 2016 Dec 30

I found some truly arcane Mac 68k software on a University server but to be honest, its about statistical plot analysis of X-Ray spectrums. You couldn't even "play" with that if you tried real hard. Shock
So frankly, some good software will get lost because nobody is left to be concerned about it.

cbone's picture
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Joined: 2011 Sep 17

Somebody's gotta love X-Ray Spectrum stuff, right? (I hope)

m68k's picture
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Joined: 2016 Dec 30

I am a science geek myself, yet I got headaches when I tried to comprehend what those colorplots are supposed to be all about. So I refrained from uploading what most folks would consider@#$+&?? software. And besides comprehending, who the heck got an X-Ray scanner sitting on his desk?

cbone's picture
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Joined: 2011 Sep 17

just you wait: someday, seventy-some odd years from now, someone's gonna bemoan the failure of a certain group to capture this by then over a hundred year-old bit of software for some arcane and otherwise frivolous experimentation, and who's gonna be to blame, I wonder.. hmm? Stare

Jatoba's picture
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Joined: 2018 Apr 16

And maybe those people will also have made an X-Ray Scanner emulator compatible with all old Macs to make use of all that without having to own an actual X-Ray Scanner. Tongue (Lots of such emulators are out there, at least of other devices.)

m68k's picture
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Joined: 2016 Dec 30

Trust me folks, that software is as usable outside the Lab, as a fistfull of foot fungus. I would have almost uploaded it, until I realized that that would be the equivalent of SPAMing a software archive. Laughing out loud

lilliputian's picture
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Joined: 2010 Jul 29

Please reconsider!

cbone's picture
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Joined: 2011 Sep 17

Well m68k, at least it's not like uploading a virus for that 'virus collector' thread we had to a few months back!

m68k's picture
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Joined: 2016 Dec 30

OK, u folks beat me. I'll upload this sheyit over the weekend but nobody dare complain afterwards "WTF does that stuff do?!!"

BTW: A German professor wrote that app- so I'm not even sure it has an English interface.

m68k's picture
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Joined: 2016 Dec 30

So you asked for it, now you got it right here. I would truly appreciate it, if someone could take the time to double check the nonsense I posted there - and please no jokes about the utter impracticabillity of this software. Shock

lilliputian's picture
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Joined: 2010 Jul 29

I'm guessing some poor geology post-doc will be very happy to find it, indeed! Laughing out loud

m68k's picture
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Joined: 2016 Dec 30

I guess I deserved that. Shock

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

Well... I know I have had in my collection at some point a number of the items in that list. I no longer have any of the original media, but have a duplicated backup archive where I stored all my images (mostly in Shrinkwrap archives) back in the day. Seems like some of that got corrupted as we discovered with PowerLisp, but I'll do another pass through and see if I've got any of those. I may have tossed the originals when I upgraded to newer version (tsk tsk younger me).

[edit] no dice. I've got:

D'Music 2.5
Red Ryder 8 and 10
Various others in later or earlier versions.

cbone's picture
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Joined: 2011 Sep 17

So it's okay for me to look for any other software that I may have missed posting from the archives I've squirreled away over the years? Would it also be okay to mention any software I've found info online for but isn't available anywhere online at all either? And if I do, would it help any if I also were to add links to product and/or info pages that are still viewable on the web for those MIA software?

I just want to make sure I'm contributing the right way, if allowable here, of any more and/or other items I'm aware of (potential, conceivable or even high) interest.

Bolkonskij's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 3

of course!

Like I wrote, the list above is very incomplete. Whatever you can add to the list is great. Just beware that the list covers 80's Macintosh software for now.

mossy_11's picture
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Joined: 2009 Sep 5

I'm in contact with the author of MacRacquetball (same guy did MacGolf, too). I've just sent him an email asking if he has a copy of the missing version. I'll also be getting in touch with the original creator of Strategic Conquest shortly to (hopefully) learn the story behind its development, so I'll check with him if he happens to have it. Same deal with Chris Crawford, who made Balance of Power.

Another one missing that I have some personal stake in seeing preserved is Albert's House, which got disk images added in 2018 that turned out to be unreadable.

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

Thanks, Mossy! I haven't heard from the guy who did MacGolf for XOR or the guy behind Strategic Conquest in years!

I wish I could still find some of MY old shareware from the 80s; unfortunately, I don't think any of it survived the 90s. Mostly Hypercard stacks.

mossy_11's picture
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Joined: 2009 Sep 5

So the MacGolf (and MacRacquetball and Road Racer) guy is Bob Pappas. He works at Apple today. He doesn't have MacRacquetball 2.0, as the updated version was released after he left the company, but he does have a whole lot of other stuff — he's taken high-res photos for me of newspaper and magazine clippings, a royalty statement for MacGolf, some development materials, his game boxes, and the first page of his employment contract with XOR.

And he also talked to me about his stint as a game developer (he stopped making games after XOR) for around two hours on Skype. So I'm delighted to say that I now have what I need to tell a very detailed behind-the-scenes story about what was possibly the best-selling Mac game of the 1980s. (MacGolf — his other two titles didn't sell well at all.)

I may eventually upload lower-resolution versions of some of that stuff to here, but first I have other plans for it. Wink

Haven't had a chance yet to check in with the Strategic Conquest guy, as I got busy with my freelance work.

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

Nice Ars article btw; I used it to plug your kickstarter stretch goal Laughing out loud

Bolkonskij's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 3

Guys, that is excellent news! Thank you for caring and checking your stuff. I wonder how to further spread the word about this?

Also please report back should you run into names for adding to that list.

@mossy_11 - adding Albert's House to the list, thx!

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

Ready,Set,Go v2.1 is here. - Note: it is in a MacZip* zip file (requires MacZip on a classic Mac OS 7 - 9.x to expand correctly). Uploaded by MCP, so I assume the disk images it contains will also be DiskDup+ images.

*PITA if wanting this for Mac hardware running a native SSW6, but OK if extracting on a host OS for Mini vMac and dropping disk images into MvM.

BTW, it has a bootable 1985 System folder on board. Not a pristine disk tho' it was last written-to in 1993.

Bolkonskij's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 3

Good call - my search only found 3.x. 4.x and 6.x here on the page - missed that one. Thanks, crossing it off the list. Now, for that original 1.x release ...

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

missed that one.

Easy to miss this one, the uploader had omitted the commas from the file-name's title.
So it wouldn't show when running a search.

adespoton's picture
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Bolkonskij, a year or so back, I was combing through old issues of MacWorld, MacUser, MacFormat and MacAddict to compile a list of software products to ensure were archived somewhere. I never finished the list, but would this sort of thing be worthwhile? If so, what info would you want to see? Product/Year/Version/Publisher? Anything else?

Bolkonskij's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 3

Absolutely, that will be of great help! Product / Year / Version / Publisher and whatever helps clearly identifying the title in question is fine. *thumbs up*

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

I'll get back on that then Smile I'll create a GDocs spreadsheet and link it in here, once I get started. Should be easier for multiple people to update.

Franky233's picture
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Joined: 2019 Apr 6

Hi there,

I think it would be good to have a complete list, even it's a bit painful to create... Here's what I've localized for now:

  • Hayes Smartcom II v3.3A (1985-1991)
  • Mac Draft (French version) in DC images (but probably one of the 1st version, not sure tho'...)

Should I upload those ones?

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

Yes please; DC4.2 format stuffed with Stuffit v1 (Stuffit 1-3.x). If you're getting it from original disks, lock the disk before writing DC4.2, lock the image in software before stuffing.

mrdav's picture
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Joined: 2011 Dec 3

Hi Franky. I have found a pristine disk image of Smartcom II 4.0A dated 1994. If you make a page for Smartcom II, I will add v. 4.0 to it.

Bolkonskij's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 3

Awesome! yes, please upload them. Really happy this is getting somewhere! Smile

Franky233's picture
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Joined: 2019 Apr 6

Well, almost softwares on my own have been definitively lost some years ago, sadly. Nonetheless, I never owned anyone on the list. So, most of softwares I can upload here are from elsewhere on the web. Those ones found come from our beloved leechers... Be aware that they're still looking for Albert's House too for now. They've put the message below on their poor page: "DO NOT UPLOAD THE FILES FROM MACINTOSH GARDEN FOR A 5TH TIME PLEASE, SINCE 1) THEY'RE STOLEN FROM HERE AND 2) THEY'RE FOR THE APPLE II, NOT FOR THE MACINTOSH. THANKS.". Pathetic...
As per request, I've uploaded the French version (1.2) of MacDraft in DC4.2 format from their site. I've also added screenshots of the floppies. I've recompressed the two images in a single StuffIt 1.5 archive before that. The system disk is in MFS format inside...
Thanks mrdav for your proposition. However, I believe you can create the page with your better version, then I (or someone else) could add the other (not pristine). I don't need to be the author of pages, nor become the hero of the day. Smile What only motives me is to retrieve what's requested...

Cheers,
Franky

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

"DO NOT UPLOAD THE FILES FROM MACINTOSH GARDEN FOR A 5TH TIME PLEASE, SINCE 1) THEY'RE STOLEN FROM HERE AND 2) THEY'RE FOR THE APPLE II, NOT FOR THE MACINTOSH. THANKS."

Gets "Best Joke of the Day" award from me, Franky. - Typical comment style from "that person" when he gets annoyed - he starts yelling and stamping his little feet.

Thanks for sharing this Laughing out loud

Bolkonskij's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 3

ROFL. HE is accusing others of stealing ... best joke ever Laughing out loud

Franky233's picture
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Joined: 2019 Apr 6

More seriously, I suspect they are using some kind of script for picking up our archives and screenshots. And this script use probably a routine for changing the date of upload automatically. For example, all softwares here uploaded last year are from 2017 on their site. Just for saying, we are the original authors and us, we are the thieves...
I suggest to put a text file with our future archives saying something "this software has been added to the Garden..." with the real date of upload. And with a link to the Garden eventually. This only for softwares not already on their site.

mrdav's picture
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Joined: 2011 Dec 3

---> I suspect they are using some kind of script for picking up our archives and screenshots<----

I think you are correct. I just checked C&C Red Alert that I put here last year and the files appear on the other site as being provided in 2017. I don't care that they copy our files but to hide the fact by setting a date so that they do not show up in their latest uploads, and the date suggesting that they had it before us, is just being devious and dishonest.

Franky233's picture
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Joined: 2019 Apr 6

Exactly! Wink

m68k's picture
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Joined: 2016 Dec 30

I wonder if I could "hack" the resources of MacDraft to create an English version? Well, I'll give it a try!

Franky233's picture
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Joined: 2019 Apr 6

I think it's not probably really necessary. You can replace simply the French version with the English already present, even on the original image. I believe files with the French app can be used with the English one. Smile

m68k's picture
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Joined: 2016 Dec 30

But they are different releases, are they not?

Franky233's picture
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Joined: 2019 Apr 6

Certainly different by the language... They're almost same version, perhaps 1.2.1 for English...

m68k's picture
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Joined: 2016 Dec 30

Then I must have misread that, sorry. I'll download the English version then.

Franky233's picture
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Joined: 2019 Apr 6

No worries, you can add files from the French version to see if it works without problem. Wink

m68k's picture
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Joined: 2016 Dec 30

But the differences must be bigger than that. The first version has 95.84 KB and the second 476.86 KB.

Franky233's picture
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Joined: 2019 Apr 6

The 1st archive contains only the English app. The 2nd contains two floppy images of the software. Only one is needed tho'. The one with the app. The other is a system...

cbone's picture
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Joined: 2011 Sep 17

I've had success 'operating' on a different language program and the helper files of a localized program. That was close to 25 years ago, so I only remember dealing with Spanish, French and a couple of Japanese Mac OSes and programs when I worked on Macs overseas (no actual memory of which programs they were though).

mrdav's picture
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Joined: 2011 Dec 3

Seven Cities of Gold (on the list above) and The Temple of Apshai (not on the list) were acquired some time ago by Apple2Forever but the games were unplayable because they asked for the master disk. See comment here. I have copies of the disk images that Apple2Forever offered to see if I could crack the games but I was not successful. Regarding The Temple of Apshai, there was a supposed crack available but it did not work on this copy of the game. See comment by bertyboy in this thread. Do we want the disk images here anyway? If so, I can put them up (with acknowledgement to Apple2Forever)

Bolkonskij's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 3

Oh yes, please, definitely upload them! Maybe in the future we can find a way to circumvent the master disk requirement. If not, at least we have it archived.

Darn, maybe we should create a list for "old Mac games that need a hack" as well ..

adespoton's picture
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Joined: 2015 Feb 15

That'd be great! Archive.org has undergone an exhaustive effort to do "clean patches" for Apple ][ games; it'd be great to have that for early Mac games too.

Back in the day, I found using The Cheat to watch memory values was usually enough to get me past disk sector checks and the like; Master Disk checks are usually doing some heck for a dodgy or hidden sector on-disk, and the entire routine can be NOP'd out or jumped to make things playable.

mrdav's picture
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Joined: 2011 Dec 3

OK. they are up now (here and here)

Bolkonskij's picture
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I keep repeating myself but ... thank you again for your efforts, mrdav! Much appreciated!