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Innes's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 19
Appletalk

So me and my brother have thrown a network together and have been enjoying multiplayer Deadlock over it, one thing that i have been finding tricky here however is finding games with appletalk support, it isn't always mentioned in the description

Could anyone point me in the direction of any non FPS' that support appletalk? I would be very grateful ^_^

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bertyboy's picture
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Joined: 2009 Jun 14

Diablo ? Myth FL ? Myth II ? Myth III ?

Most of the multi-player card games, ie. not patience type games
Most of the flight sims
Most of the racing games, especially Star Wars Episode 1 Pod Racer
Maybe half the multi-player board games
All the Age of Empires / Civilization type games, except original Civilization.
Command & Conquer.

What sort of games were you looking for ? Turn-based of real-time ? AppleTalk has been easily incorporated into Mac software since 1987, and before with a bit more effort.

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Joined: 2009 Dec 19

Armor Alley is a side-scroller, rather than an FPS, but I've always liked it and it makes a good network games.

themacmeister's picture
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Joined: 2009 Oct 26

NetTrek is one of the finest multiplayer (more than 2 player) games ever made - believe it or not, they are still releasing versions of this game, which I played on the original Mac Plus and SE...circa 1986?

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I can't believe no one mentioned Bolo.
http://www.lgm.com/bolo/

"Bolo is a 16 player graphical networked real-time multi-player tank battle game. It has elements of arcade-style shoot-em-up action, but for the serious players who play 12 hour games with 16 players working in teams in different networked computer clusters around an office or university campus, it becomes more of a strategy game. You have to play it to understand."

Innes's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 19

Bolo is definitely one to try

I wander if anyone can help with a problem tho, we have retail versions of Command and Conquer however they won't communicate with each other, no hosted games are being picked up by the other computer through the network option. Anyone have any ideas why that is happening?

Edit - Well i've found out it needs an IPX protocol for network play, so my next question, can anyone shed light on weather implementing whatever it is is possible? Thanks for your time

Edit 2 - Rite, i've found out what it is, getting hold of a program that runs IPX is a bit of a niceness as the free one by Novell doesn't seem to be downloadable any more, perhaps it could find a home on this site Tongue . Still looking but if anyone has a program that can do this, an upload or point in the right direction would be appreciated ^_^

I seem to be treating this post as a progress log Tongue

Edit 3 - So i've figured out there already is a MacIPX thingy in the systems folder and i have checked that the ethernet bands are the same on both computers that the read me has recommended, theres definitely nothing wrong with the network because as said earlier, it runs Deadlock fine, i think i'm out of ideas now

bertyboy's picture
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Joined: 2009 Jun 14

Is it configured off auto ??

Are you running on a G3 ? or earlier ?

Here also mentions a similar fix for issues it caused with Warcraft II.

Or the accepted solution here.

Innes's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 19

They are both G3 laptops running system 9. Auto configure is off and ethernet 802.3 is selected
am i missing some sort of software?

bertyboy's picture
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Did you download the up-to-date installer from the link in the page in my first link ?

Can the 2 G3's do file sharing ?
Is AppleTalk on or off ?

Innes's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 19

Hey, thanks for the help Smile . Very much appriciated

Appletalk may be on but C&C doesn't support it
the 2 G3's cannot file share, that may be because i haven't found out how yet but thats unlikely, there both plugged into a hub via ethernet

If the installer can help me on my way then i'm so near yet so far, i don't know weather OSX is messing around with the file (as i have to transfer it over) but i can't get it to decompress or do anything on OS9. Any ideas?

bertyboy's picture
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Joined: 2009 Jun 14

Mmm, get filesharing sorted under OS9 first, it's the easiest to do, then you can eliminate problems with the network connection between the two macs.

Are you using patch cable or cross-over cable ? Is the hub they're connected through also a router ? And is it a DHCP server ? ie. like a DSL modem with a few ports ?

If you have a model number for the hub, let us know. It might be that the two G3 Macs, although physically connected, are just not willing to communicate with each other. But we must establish that the network connection is sound first.

AppleTalk needs to be on for things like TCP/IP to function in these old Macs.

Innes's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 19

The hub is a wireless router, it supplies the rest of the house with internet while linking the OS 9 lappys with ethernet cables.
So, i have a found something, upon your recommendation to get file sharing sussed first, my attempt has been practically successful with the G3 iBook happily allowing the Powerbook access to its files via appletalk. The powerbook however doesn't seem to be able to turn file sharing on, any thoughts?

After assigning the TCP/IP settings to the ethernet (previously it was set on airport), the powerbook accepted a new IP address, i think thats significant

bertyboy's picture
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Joined: 2009 Jun 14

Sounds good, you should have AppleTalk and TCP/IP both "Active" - rather than "Active when needed" and both on Ethernet - on both G3's.

They should also be set to get the IP addresses from the router. That may require you to key the Router IP address to the TCP/IP control panel on both - something like 192.168.0.1. Then hopefully they'll both get IP addresses in the same subnet as each other, like 192.168.0.2 and 192.168.0.3 with the subnet being automatically set to 255.255.255.0.
OS9 was always pants at picking up netwotk changes, so sometimes you would have to restart to get it to work.

Sounds like you've got most of this working if you can get file sharing working one way.
Do the G3's have the same name ? this might explain why you can't start filesharing on the second.
Where did the OS9 folders for each G3 come from ? from the same source ? There's a file, can't remember the name of it just now, that if it's copied from one Mac to another hoses file sharing, something like "Users & Groups Data File". Trash it on the one that doesn't start FileSharing if you're unsure of the source. Restart and the OS will recreate it - make sure the computer has a different name from the other one though.
Are there two volumes on one G3 with the same name ? That interferes with FileSharing too.

So once file-sharing is working on both we'll switch back to tinkering with IPX.

Innes's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 19

right, its sorted. Restarting the Powerbook seems to have done the trick, they are both communicating and sending files to each other Smile

just to mention, in the appletalk and tcp/ip control panel, i'm not able to locate the option to set it to active and active when needed

bertyboy's picture
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Joined: 2009 Jun 14

Don't worry about it, there's a "Basic", an "Intermediate" and an "Advanced" user access level to most of the network related control panels. It must be in Intermediate level.

Do you want to follow the original instructions for IPX ? And see if there is any success. IPX may have issues with the router (it may not like IPX) or IPX may default to looking for some sort of server (providing functionality like the router does for TCP). I just hope we get a little bit further than before.

Innes's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 19

Well i've followed the steps to take it off auto configuring and its all set there, however the network number is stuck at 0x0 which one of the links you provided described how to solve. Big problem with that is that while i think the file is a .hqx (it only says this when i download it to an external volume) , i cant seem to de-compress it to see if its any use, having to download in OSX probably doesn't help

The link to the accepted solution seems to want a subscription to be paid for to use which is a shame

I think however that judging what what this protocol-type-thing wants to do, it will require a server rather than a little hub

On a side note, the two computers are recognising each other and can communicate through the network option of file sharing now as well as appletalk, altho this all may not amount to success, i've definitely familiarised myself with how OS 9 file sharing works and saved a bit of time sending things between the two machines without a USB stick

Thanks very much for all the help you have provided Smile

bertyboy's picture
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Joined: 2009 Jun 14

The .hqx is just a binhex file. Any version of Stuffit Expander (or any number of old System 6 / 7 utilities can decode it.

For the site with the accepted solution, just scroll down to the bottom of the page to see it, you don't actually need a subscription.

And if IPX requires a sort of server to manage the connection setup, we should be able to edit one of the Macs to handle that part.

Innes's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 19

nope, all comments appear to be restricted to premium users Sad

and the .hqx things are refusing to work with stuffit deluxe, is it worth me installing an older version? I don't suppose you could give decompressing them a try, just to see if its my system or if the file is kaput

bertyboy's picture
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Doh, you're quite right. When I founf the link it showed me the solution at the bottom. Anyway, I found the same page in the Google cache - with the solution. Here's the text from that solution:

"This is normal operation for MacIPX v1.3, which ships with the NetWare Client for Mac OS 5.1x. The "driver not opened" message means the driver is loaded in memory but is not active, it does not have an IPX network number yet and is not sending or receiving any packets. The driver will open when the first application using MacIPX specifically opens the driver. For example, when the user launches the NetWare Directory Browser, MacIPX will initialize and establish itself on the IPX network.

If IPX will not initialize when a MacIPX application is opened, check the frame type settings by double-clicking the ethernet icon in the MacIPX control panel.

If you still have no luck then you may be subject to a problem which is thought to only affect the Macintosh 5400 6500, 6400 and 6360. This problem has been confirmed by Apple Computer and is a known problem with the Apple Ethenet CS II (CommSlot) card. A fix is available from Apple's web site (http://www.info.apple.com) in a file called "6360-64xx-54xx Update 1.0".

With the fix from Apple installed, the MacIPX client can be initialized by opening the MacIPX Control Panel, selecting the AppleTalk icon, then select the Ethernet icon. The IPX net number should then show at the bottom of the control panel and the client should function properly.

The MacIPX does not fully support this configuration and will not initialize normally when attempting to log in to the file server or mount a volume through the NetWare Directory Browser.

Another alternative is to install and configure NetWare for Macintosh on the file server and have the Macintosh workstations log in through the Chooser (via AppleTalk)."

If you have Stuffit Deluxe, have a quick check in the Preferences. for me it's on the Internet tab, where it lists all the file types it will open. Make sure .hqx is selected.

Edit:
Checked the download, it requires you to register ProSoft NetWare Client 5.1.4.
Lets hope the Accepted Solution is enough.

Innes's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 19

i'm back at university now, which means that i'm going to have to wait till the easter break to give this a shot, thanks all the same, you've been a great help

As soon as i'm back in my hometown with the two lappys, i'll be giving it another shot